To be rubbish with men, any tips?

[Ireallywantacat]

I'm a recently single female in my mid 30s. Sadly my last relationship ended due to no commitment from him, it wasn't that he didn't believe in those things, but it just seemed that even after years together I wasn't his one.
Anyway, licking my wounds and getting myself back out there. Really had no intention of finding someone else anytime soon even though I would love children, however met someone unexpectedly.
Obviously been out of the dating game for a few years and so far we've only spoken a few times in person and mainly online, but I can feel myself second guessing everything.
I've always been shy unfortunately, I have been described as 'nervous' many times and I do take anxiety medication which seems to be help.
The conversation does flow well with this man and in person, it felt very natural with him.
However I'm scared of either being too friend-like, or coming on too strong and being try hard.
I've never been a lucky in love sort of person,
I am trying to not put too many expectations on this and just see it as a friendship to start, but as I say I'm really overthinking.
I've been rejected in the past for being more of a reserved type, even though I do think I'm easy to talk to, have a good sense of humour etc.
All I know is that this man seems to have a small friendship group and is chatty yet introverted, also doesn't drink like me.
I'm just scared to mess it up and I am scared he'll say he only likes me as a friend. Would appreciate any advice.. I feel like I should know better at this age!

Be yourself.

I'd say...be easy. Not as in "legs open immediately", but rather...in my experience, the "right" men tend to gravitate towards the women who are easy to talk to, and who generally represent the low-stress part of their day. Be the one he wishes he could be sitting with when he's getting drunken shit from his mates over something meaningless (particularly since he doesn't drink), or dealing with crap at work, or whatever.

To be honest, it sounds like you're already there. Just let it develop naturally, and then ask him out to dinner - being the introverted type, it's fairly likely that he's in unfamiliar waters too, so he probably won't ask you.

Thank you! Hopefully it's promising that he speaks to me a lot, particularly as he's introverted and as he said keeps his circle quite small.. yeh, definitely won't be a legs open immediately thing 😂

Never try to modify any aspect of yourself to please a man (or anyone else outside of a professional setting). You will come across as unnatural and weird and anyone who needs you to change yourself for them is not a keeper.

Be yourself. People who mind don't matter, and people who matter don't mind.

If you try to be anyone besides who you are, it's already doomed. Be yourself and be honest with him about how you feel and what you want. There's no point in wasting time.

I've been looking at the dating market a lot lately.

YouTube and research and stats and boring nonsense.

Basically.

A lot of women fall into a trap of going for guys who are in the top 10% of guys. The guys that have a good job, a home, a car, tall, fit, active etc.
But, those top guys know that a lot of women will go for them so they say the right things, use the woman for hook ups, dump the woman and move onto the next in a plethora of choice. - the Chads and Tyrones, as they're nicknamed.

So you end up with a small percent of guys who can date any one from 18 - 80, finding one of those to stay loyal will be near impossible unless you have far more to offer than the 18 year old Instagram gym bunny that hits them up hoping they'll be loyal to her.

The general advice these days is to cast a wider net. Have standards, absolutely 100% have standards, but...

"I won't date anyone earning under £30k"
Fine, you've just eliminated millions of men from your pool.

"I'll only date gym goers"
Fine, you've just eliminated millions more.

"I'd never date a man with kids"
Okay, you've just eliminated millions more.

"I could never date someone overweight"
Okay, you've eliminated millions more.

You're left trying to date the same 5% of single guys as 80% of single women.

Meanwhile, the guy earning £20k part time at Costa that enjoys hiking but never goes the gym and that would be ever loyal and love the bones of you, he's overlooked.

Does that make sense?

Men bitch and moan that dating is a numbers game, but they're absolutely right, but it's a numbers game for everyone, not just the guys.
Top small percentage of guys get a few responses a week, the bottom guys don't get any responses, so the bottom guys give up trying, leaving them and millions of women single.

It fascinates me because I'm outside of it and I'm not interested in dating. It's like a weird social experiment running in real time that may doom us all.

Here's a video where a guy simulated dating apps etc.

I went off on a right tangent there...
🤣🤣

Ignore me..

A lot of women fall into a trap of going for guys who are in the top 10% of guys. The guys that have a good job, a home, a car, tall, fit, active etc.

I'd be interested in knowing what the top 10% of men actually are like. I think a lot of people, men and women, underestimate just how rare certain things are at a full population level and I wonder if even the top 10% isn't quite as rich or handsome as we might think. A quick Google suggests a top 10% male salary is around £60k - definitely not to be sniffed at, but would most people guess it to be higher?

I've seen videos where a man has asked women what the top men are, who they'd date etc.

It's not unusual for the women in the videos to demand a man earns 100k at least. The younger the woman, the more they expect.

There's even a term for it.
Google it:
The 666 rule.
A guy should be 6 feet minimum
A guy should earn 6 figures minimum
A guy's 'appendage' should be 6inch minimum.

I think I've been misguided as to what the average was in one of those, and must have assumed it to be higher than it is. But I'm not saying which one.

... Hmm I'm saying nothing.. but I will say, a lot of men, when they talk of certain matters, mistake CMs for Inches.. hell, some guys i've known have mistaken MM for inches.. 🤪

But there’s nothing unreasonable about any of the standards you’ve mentioned. Why should women have to ‘cast a wider net’ and accept the dregs rather than going for what they actually want? It’s better to be single than be with a loser.

Just be yourself. Ask him out to grab a bite to eat, a coffee, to see a movie. No pressure then. If he’s forthcoming, then you’re in! Lol

Ask a woman that wants kids, marriage, family etc if it's better to be single.

And it's very interesting, and very telling, that you consider anyone outside of the top 10% as a loser.

Top 10% in this country based on income would be someone earning £59.2k,
As 30% of UK men are now 6ft, the top 10% would be at least 6ft 1.
Meanwhile, in the US, only 42% of single men own their homes.

That's a lot of men considered to be 'Losers' and I wonder how many women would fall below those thresholds and should therefore be overlooked in the dating market? I'm sure men holding such opinions would be called all manner of names.

@KissTheRains I’m not talking about the top 10%, I’m talking about your statements in inverted commas. Wanting the potential father of your children to earn over 30k and not be overweight is completely reasonable.

Even if you want marriage and kids, the numerous threads on here every day moaning about useless husbands and fathers will tell you that it’s better to not get involved with them at all, rather than settle for someone sub par!

The problem is that too many women treat those things (the ones in quotes) as primary requirements.

By contrast, take a quick look through the AIBU section and see how many of the complaints about husbands are because they're not earning enough, or because they're not going to the gym any more etc - you'll find there are very, very few.

The kids one is interesting - most women won't date a guy with kids, but there are a large number of husband-complaints on here about men who've become absent husbands or terrible fathers since the kids were born. You'd think that knowing that won't happen ahead of time would be a good thing, but nope...

A key curiosity is...they're also all things that can change over time, both for the better and for the worse.

The reality is that those quoted requirements are surface-level specifications valid only for the short term, which say absolutely nothing about the long-term viability of the relationship.

What on earth happened on this thread with the incel red pill manifesto.

It's not what this thread is about, at all.

Op, to actually refer to your question. There's no point in trying to be something you're not; noone can maintain that and it's not natural. The right person for you and vice versa will "work" regardirss of your traits

There's nothing huge or negative or dysfunctional really .... That would need to be changed.

Just be yourself and if you suit, you suit.

And it's not just about them liking you, you should be very much trying them on for size and assessing them too.

A lot of women fall into a trap of going for guys who are in the top 10% of guys. The guys that have a good job, a home, a car, tall, fit, active etc.

Hard to know where to start with this:

Firstly: how are you defining the "top 10% of guys"? A good job if you're looking for a private equity billionaire? or a good job if you live in a depressed town with 40% unemployment? That could encompass a salary from £30k to about £1.5 million. See also "good home, good car". Very subjective.

If you do decide that a rich man is the most important criteria (and rich men aren't really my thing but for the sake of example): why would you be better off removing that restriction and settling for a poor or average man? Wouldn't you be better off on your own but without the poor man?

Your assumption seems to be that having a man is more important than any of these other criteria. Personally if the choice was between having a poor, overweight and not very pleasant man and not having one at all, I know what I'd do.

There's a reason for having a high bar: it tells you what your minimum standards are. If you're willing to go significantly below those standards to accommodate a man, you're better off without him.

Wanting the potential father of your children to earn over 30k and not be overweight is completely reasonable.

This. A man in his 20s earning less than 30k is fair enough, but in your mid 30s? WTF has he been doing for the past 10+ years?

Similar issue with weight. Being overweight in your 50s is one thing, but in your 30s?

I would say that only a small percentage of 30 something men fit into these categories. Unless you are overweight or a low earner yourself, I don't think that these are things that you should compromise on.

£30k, btw, is the UKs average.
I picked it on purpose.

A man earning over £30k is earning more than 75% of the population.
https://moneysprout.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-uk-earns-over-30k/#:~:text=The%20latest%20UK%20data%20shows,a%20liability%20to%20income%20tax.

See how easily huge percentages of the population get dismissed from dating pools and then people wonder why they're single or why the man drops them or why they get ghosted.

Fascinating. Thank you. But as PP said, that's not what the thread is about and as I said in my first post, I went off on a tangent.

Apologies OP.

Ttfn BBTC