To think the mum in Mrs Doubtfire was the victim of a prick manchild ex?

[KarenNotAKaren]

Watching Mrs Doubtfire. Haven’t watched this is years, it’s such a favourite! As a child I remember thinking how mean Sally Field’s character is, and how cool Robin Williams is.

As a mother, I now have 100% changed my mind.

Williams’s character is a pathetic man child who can’t hold down a job. I’d have had it off with Pierce Brosnan too and probably would have done everything in my power to keep custody while Disney Dad, who can’t even keep a clean house until he ‘becomes a woman’, tells inappropriate jokes.

He went to the end of the Earth? He wouldn't even clean his own house for them or get a job for them.

You know this is a forum, right?

One of the things that stands out in the film - i first saw it pre DCs - is that neither parent is concentrating or willing to compromise on what is best for the children.

So the dad absolutely must have his zany career, and the mum must have her career and immediately start making her new life. But they don't ask the DCs what they want to do or how they think their lives should look.

I am not about to knock a woman who had the absolute good sense not to give up her solid career while married to a man in a famously precarious occupation. I will knock her for not immediately suggesting a sit down with the father and the DCs to work out a plan to try for 3 months and then review and tweak it.

There is a certain amount of Disney Dadding going on. That doesn't get criticised as much by the film as that awful harridan of a mother going out to work to keep a roof over her family's head. And having a grown up relationship with a pretty nice chap.

Which wouldn’t have happened if he’d been a good father.

I always found Mrs Doubtfire unbearably cringe. The premise is awful and I find Robin Williams in most films (as opposed to standup) cringe-o-rama. And as you say it hasn’t aged well.

So film should portray an inclusive world without sexism and racism? no homophobia? That would be a complete fantasy.

The point about the sexism of Crocodile Dundee or the twatty dad behaviour in Mrs Doubtfire is that - hang on to your hat, even at the time! - we talked about it. I remember being in the bar (back in my army days) complaining about CD2 and the sexism, and all the other films with tits everywhere, and sexism everywhere and all the women nodding and most of the men saying "it's only a film" but it wasn't only a film. It was our lives. And now, years later in fb groups with those same people talking about the SA that went on and everyday sexism - now those same chaps have grown up and have wives and daughters some are ashamed. Some have apologised. Many say "why didn't you say something at the time"

So yes, the films start discussions - and sometimes they bring realisation. As Mrs D / Daniel realised how much of the mental load etc, that his wife had been carrying.

Hmm. I'm in the middle on this. I think Robin Williams plays the character amazingly & is really funny.

I never saw it as a child - my DC watched it first when they were small. They loved it.

But we were all subjected to my exH fecklessness & irresponsibility - and over the years we all found it hard to watch. I sympathised with Sally Field, and the DC found it a bit upsetting of the marriage breakup & useless dad.

But I think what saves the Robin Williams character is that even though he was an appalling spouse & nightmare to be married to & have DC with, he loved his kids & did what was necessary to change & see them.

Of course thinking too deeply about him duping Sally Field & his DC is also problematic ...

I will knock her for not immediately suggesting a sit down with the father and the DCs to work out a plan to try for 3 months and then review and tweak it.

Well, if they did this, then there's no film, no plot!

For a comedy movie, albeit with a deeper meaning, there needs to be a premise to make it work.

That is based on a dramatic scenario where the father can't see his kids, craves seeing them so much that he comes up with a crazy plan to enable it ....

The book is completely different (well, no, the essential plot is the same) - but it's much darker, neither parent is great, they are at each other's throats in a more serious way - it ends differently too.

It's altogether a very depressing read.

But Anne Fine really hated the film version, for that reason, that it changed her book so much.

I too see it very differently as an adult. The birthday party, with a horse (donkey?) in the house and all that mess ... well, I just wanted to cry for her coming home to that!
As a child, I'd have considered her a literal party-pooper

I could have written this, as you've described the dynamic in my family home growing up. And hence my views on the film!
The ONLY difference is that my dad always worked full-time.

I feel the same. She doesn't recognise him? He can't just get a job and see his kids normally?

Yes to Billy Elliott!

Watching it as an adult you can see the dad is deeply traumatised and struggling to relate to a son who is very different from him and the world he grew up in. That's what makes the end scene - where dad goes to watch Billy perform and cries - is so beautiful.

Mrs Doubtfire doesn't punish the mum - she gets divorced, keeps her beautiful house and then very quickly hooks up with Pierce Brosnan. If that's not the divorcee dream, I don't know what is!

Daniel thinks she's being harsh about his inadequate parenting, but quickly realises that she also doesn't accept the same standards from hired childcare, and that he actually is below par.

When the film starts the dad does have a job, he's a voice over artist, but he's not impressed that the cartoon characters light up cigarettes, so goes off script, which results in him losing his job...again.
Yes he's a Disney dad which is why his 'joyless' wife has had enough. And she gives him his marching orders, but the viewer will already have a bit of sympathy for him because he's principled, hence losing his job.
I think that opening scene is important because if he was just a Disney dad he wouldn't have garnered so much sympathy from the outset.
He makes mistakes and attempts to put them right, again I think this is where it helps keep sympathy for the character, whereas in real life most Disney dads don't realise they've pissed their partner off, they see themselves as a victim of a 'psycho' woman, Williams' character is flawed and complex, but he also has very likeable qualities (like most humans).
I think it's a good film to discuss, it raises numerous issues, it shines a light on everyday sexism, on how being a women gets unwanted male attention and how women are held to a higher account than men. It's also very much a product of its age.
As an aside I think Williams was an exceptional actor, his more serious films are often quite haunting.

‘No debate’.

Mrs Doubtfire is just the Disney way of normalising men dressed as women. I cannot bear it.

He was brilliant in Good Will Hunting, Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poets Society. Sadly he got pulled into those awful sentimental saccharine films like Patch Adams, Hook, Awakenings and Mrs Doubtfire. I guess if at the time when you are one of the most bankable film stars in Hollywood getting paid millions to 'dial it in' there is the risk of compromising on the quality of your output.

But that's not what it was. He gained access to the house and his kids by being in a disguise. Regardless of what the disguise was, that's actually incredibly creepy when you think about it. Oh and what about the criminal damage to the new guys car when he breaks off the mercedes sign. That's outrageous really when you think about it

well yes but that's my point: films reflect and enlarge RL situations. If adults were rational about everthing the entertainment world would be pure fantasy.

As it is, things like this may have got some men thinking that they need to step up. Some women may have recognised that they should probably move on with their lives, without the DH. Some families may have pulled back from the brink. Some kids may have identified a disney dad (or mum) and a parent working their backside off to keep their lives on an even keel. And that they, too, deserve to have a partner and be happy.

I didn't like Robin Williams's stand up or comic film roles - I can appreciate his talent but it's not my taste, too OTT and manic.

But I did really enjoy One Hour Photo and thought he was excellent in that.

Do you faint at the sight of women in trousers or is that OK?

I think that was intended as a bleeding edge satire of GC women.

Too subtle for me anyhow 😄

this, he learns not to be such an.idiot you are supposed to be on the mums side, I was older when it came out so maybe understood it a bit better, still love it I watched when it was on.

i am always peeved when .he says she is English though thats clearly a scottish accent !