Not to pay service charge at restaurant

[ThesecondLEM]

So we went out last night, had a lovely meal, great service. Pricey, but we knew this. 12.5% discretionary service charge added to bill, which of course we paid happily.

DP prefers to be given the choice to tip, I think it makes it easier.

It then occurred to me that when handing over a tip for good service I'm reasonably confident the staff receive this (hopefully tax free) to boost their wages. I'm wondering if this happens when the service is automatically added as part of the bill. Especially in larger/chain resturants if it just goes into the profits?

I'm not interested in boosting company profits, I'm wanting to say thank you to staff for their hard work. Saying that, might someone who works in a restaurant where tips are extra?

I agree it's fair in principle.

However who is looking after the cash tips? How do you know they are not skimming?
How is it worked out.

Many (very many) years ago I did 6 weeks as a silver service waitress. Over the Christmas period. All tips were handed in to be split with all staff. My share after a month of 2 shifts a day, 7 days a week was £3. 45.
I'm almost certain the manager was skimming hundreds first. So who do you trust with the cash tips?

After the first month, I kept my own tips. For those 2 weeks I made easy 200 a week. Got caught keeping my own tips, and was sacked.

I haven't come across it being added automatically, but would remove it if it was. I sometimes leave a cash tip, sometimes not, depends on if the service was genuinely great or not. Buy I'd never leave more than 10%. If it was average why would I give the staff a ti, they've literally just done theornjob? They're paid at least minimum wage. If they don't like the salary get a different job. Same as anyone.

My Ds works for Toby Carvery. He shares cash tips with any colleague who may have covered the table at one point. Any tips paid by card get paid in his wages. All tips on Christmas Day were shared amongst all staff before they finished their shift.

I know a local place charge a service charge and all staff on that shift get a share of it from kitchen staff to front of house staff.

One thing that worries me with 'all tips go to staff' is the ratio of the split.

I can understand the service charge on larger parties thing. Amount of work of a larger table can be a lot to handle at times. But service charge on a single person's bill or the like, sod off.

Oh and added to my post up thread. We only add a service charge for tables of 10+ and we are more than happy to remove if asked

I had posted further up thread as we own restaurants.

But this is the guidance sent to us by our accountant.https://www.litrg.org.uk/latest-news/news/220720-how-tips-are-taxed

But genuinely, why worry about it? Presumably you wouldn't go into any other place of work and involve yourself relative pay/benefits at the time, so how are eateries different?

Why do you assume that tips are tax free? They aren't. All income should be declared. Whatever your job is.

And a wide range of employers take the tips / service charge, and if they don't keep them, they use them as part of the wage thereby reducing what the employer actually pays to below the minimum wage. It is entirely legal to use the tips as "wage". And not uncommon at all. Some of the largest chains do it.

I've only ever seen service charge added for large groups at restaurants around here and I eat out quite a lot. Usually it's just my husband and I and there's almost never a service charge for a table of 2. We tip in cash if we want to. Before Covid I always always tipped no matter what but after lockdowns I noticed a massive drop in service at the same time as prices started going up, so now I'm much more discerning.

When I did waitressing and bartending work (over 10 years ago in my late teens/early 20's) we all kept our own tips and I'm pretty sure no one declared them, I definitely didn't. It wasn't like we got much anyway, mostly coins back then but it was always nice.

Automatic service charge is not a new thing. When I worked in the catering in London in late 90’s to early noughties, it was fairly common then. And it was 12.5% even back then.

I worked at a well known landmark restaurant for few years and they had the tronc system. We got paid a basic annual salary, which was above minimum wage and then a percentage of the service charge based on your experience & job title (which were graded). I of course don’t know if the restaurant kept a percentage to themselves but for what it’s worth, I felt we were quite well paid within the industry.

As do the waiting staff, no?

It is entirely legal to use the tips as "wage". And not uncommon at all. Some of the largest chains do it

So do many cruise lines

There was a brouhaha some years ago when P&O tried to claim that all tips were paid to staff, only for it to be disproved and more "clarifications" issued which actually clarified nothing

It's a hot topic among cruisers anyway and some got themselves in a right knot over it, ignoring that they could have just paid up once then forget about it

My niece worked as a waitress whilst at uni and she shared tips with whoever worked that night. They were all put in a glass jar put on the bar and shared out each night before they went home. She got given £50 by a customer once. She generally got a £70 share after each shift.

I absolutely never pay the charges that are automatically added to the bill. If I have received good service I pay my waiting staff cash to them personally. I never tip for bad service not ever.

The one thing I did cut back on last year was eating out. Most local independents have closed, the chains are noisy and expensive, and their service is "variable ". I recently waited 45 minutes to be served and then they added 12.5 % and left it open to add your tip. I declined their kind offer on both counts. The food was pretty average too.

I used to object to it being added on automatically. DS works in an independent gastropub type place. He prefers it when it is added on to the bill as it's simpler. They add up all the tips & divide by the number of staff then multiply by the hours they have done, or something like that. This means everyone from the chefs to the pot washer get a fair amount. Cash can disappear into people's pockets.

This.
Many people do jobs at minimum wage without being tipped. Restaurants etc should pay a decent wage (ie above NMW) and tips should be the exception not the norm.

Yes and with regards to the “Poor American waiters” only being paid USD2 per hour, if I was a waiter in some of those restaurants, bearing in mind the tip expected is around 20% of the bill total, I would be paying the owners to work there.😒

How much do you reckon those “Poor American waiters” are earning in many restaurants in New York, Orlando, Los Angeles etc. for instance? 🙄Must be quite a hefty sum I reckon. USD100 bill is peanuts in the States in many restaurants. USD20 per table? Nice work if you can get it

I don't mind a service charge, however I have in past not realised and tipped as well.

If a service charge is added, I don't tip as well although if they just leave it to a discretionary tip, I would tip more than what a service charge is. I presume they do this as many people don't tip, or tip poorly?

On recent visits to the US, at least 15-20% is expected now. Even on buffets I've been to, where it always used be advised leave a couple of dollars in buffets, to the servers who bring your drinks.

True. Bartending and waiting tables can make big money in the states, it’s often considered a career unlike in the UK where the jobs are mainly seen as those for students ect

On the whole their wages are shit. Most of them only do it for the tips. It's a perk of a low paying bloody thankless job that people often do as a second job to make ends meet.

When I worked for wetherspoons years back we were supposed to get tips but never saw them (roumer was that management was using them to subsidise stock discrepancies)

It would be lovely to think that staff got all of their share of tips by law. Having worked in various services industry positions, I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I'll keep asking staff if they get them, and getting the service charge taken off the bill and tipping cash separately. It's still the most reasonable way to try to ensure tips actually do go to staff.

It depends on their role. My DD did all sorts of catering roles while on her Chef collage course. Some waiting on also do kitchen assistant jobs. The wages are the same. My DD worked in pizza places as well. A bug bare is that only the delivery drivers get tips. In all service charge situations the tips were split. It started when cashless got more popular. Even when working race events the tips were split.

@Grimchmas , if you were leaving why didn't you question it higher up? I know lots of people who work in different Spoons (Via my DD doing a Chef course etc) and they get their tips.