Not to pay service charge at restaurant

[ThesecondLEM]

So we went out last night, had a lovely meal, great service. Pricey, but we knew this. 12.5% discretionary service charge added to bill, which of course we paid happily.

DP prefers to be given the choice to tip, I think it makes it easier.

It then occurred to me that when handing over a tip for good service I'm reasonably confident the staff receive this (hopefully tax free) to boost their wages. I'm wondering if this happens when the service is automatically added as part of the bill. Especially in larger/chain resturants if it just goes into the profits?

I'm not interested in boosting company profits, I'm wanting to say thank you to staff for their hard work. Saying that, might someone who works in a restaurant where tips are extra?

as do the waiters.
The places i have been to that do this give the wait staff a bit more of it proportionally, but the chef the pan bash guy and the bar staff all get a share

Exactly

I agree. When did this become fairly standard?

It seems the Uk just keeps taking the worst parts of US culture and ramming it in to this society even when it doesn’t make sense. I get why they have tips in America and it’s still problematic especially when you read the history of tipping and how the tipping system adversely affects minorities etc, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to expect them over here.

A bit off topic but everywhere I go now I see a box for tips or an option for tips on the card machine…even for places where it’s just counter service.

This is UK employers answer to the problem of not increasing wages for over a decade.

I like the added service charge. Makes everything easier 🤩.

@Kwasi Recently, things have got weird in the US re. tipping. Wages aren’t as low as they used be- DD (18) is paid $13/hr in her first restaurant job, she knows ppl making $17/hr. But the expected tip has gone up to min. 20%, even 25% is suggested. It used to be 15%, 20% for excellent service. I’m not sure why it’s changed recently.

Your investigations are probably a waste of time as they will be told all tips need to be pooled anyway if given in cash and it risks the young persons job if they are tempted to keep it and get caught out. It also causes issues between the team of staff if they believe one of their colleagues are pocketing what should be shared tips.

Whereever ds has worked tips are pooled and shared/paid monthly (pro rata to hours worked) between all front and back of house staff and his employer takes care of the tax requirements for them through paye and saves them having to report to hmrc personally.

It is very naive to think front of house waiting staff just walk away with pockets full of tenners at the end of a shift.

Agreed. I also think if it wasn’t automatically added, most people in the UK wouldn’t tip.

If service charge is added you don't need to tip extra

Me and dh run and own 3 restaurants.

All cash tips go in a pot and divided. Someone is responsible and they divide it equally. We don't get involved. Any tips/service charge on card is taxed and deducted and then we have a tips tronc holder and they distribute it after we take the tax off.

It's fair. However, I don't think half of the people who use restaurants understand the costs and how little a restaurant actually makes.

Our staff are all paid well above minimum wage plus tips. They earn more than us most months. So our lowest wage we pay is £14 an hour. We spend in one restaurant about £6000 a week in wages after tax and national insurance is deducted. Rent sare high, business rates need to be paid, stock is very expensive, alcohol has duties included in prices etc, gas and electric is extortionate. Things regularly break down and need repairs etc. And then if you saw our VAT bills. You would have a heart attack.

But we have definitley seen this change in attitude from serving staff where they think they should receive tips tax free, because the US do this. But in the UK there is a minimum wage and we pay over this and we still have staff complain they don't receive as many tips.

All I know is, it's bloody hard managing people and they expect tips even when they have done the bare minimum.

We try to be a fair employers and we are flexible when it comes to child care, shift changes, we help out where possible. For example someone is moving, we will help move their things as we have a van. If they need a lift, we will do it etc etc

Not all hospitality managers and owners are the work of the devil.not paying their staff.

Meant to add. There's not a huge profit on hospitality, so it's not owners being greedy. We have had our restaurants for about 8 years.

We are also independents, not chains. Not sure if that's relevant or not.

Also, to add. I overheard one of our young waitresses tell a customer they don't receive tips.... this was a lie. As per my PP. She did get pulled up on it. As the customer took pity on her and put a tenner in her hand and closed it like she was helping her out. In my opinion that's basically theft. She lied. I pulled her up on it. She was embarrassed. I only let her stay as she promised not to do it again and she gave the £10 back to the customer before they left. Customer thanked her for her honesty and let her keep it anyway.

So just because a server says they don't get the tips, doesn't mean it's true. Some places are bad and don't give it. But I think in this case, staff have to vote with their feet and leave. There are good employers out there.

I don’t like the whole tipping and service charge culture. It’s just a job like any other, cashiers at a supermarket don’t get tipped, so why should a bartender? UK laws mean that waiting staff aren’t getting a “poor deal” compared to others.

All costs for overheads, including staff, should be on the menu price. I then decide if I want to eat there and agree to pay the advertised price. Just like any other service.

I’ve asked for service to be removed before, most notably at a large chain hotel in London, I was there for a course with work and we got lunch in the restaurant. I ordered a lamb burger, which came on its own, no chips or sides etc, and cost £13. They added a service charge to the bill 😂
sorry, but you’re not telling me that £13 for a piece of bread and a bit of meat isn’t covering your staffs wages. (This was also pre-cost of living crisis). It was already extortion, I’m not handing over even more just because someone walked it over to my table 🙄

I object to the moving of the goalposts from 10% to 12.5%.

Restaurant prices have increased a lot more than our salaries have over the past few years, and the service hasn't noticeably improved so what is the extra 2.5% meant to be for ?

Same with me and I'm away from home a lot, so every restaurant or hotel that adds it I request its removed virtually never an issue. To be honest I do it now when I go out on my own time too now.

I always tip when using restaurants. I tend to go about 10% but round it up. What I object to is when service charges are added to bills, it really annoys me because it puts you in a difficult position if you weren’t going to tip/can’t really afford a tip. Eating out is a treat to some and they shouldn’t be expected to top up people’s wages.

We ate somewhere last year, the food was delicious, the service was slow but they were busy so fair enough. As a consequence I had to leave whilst we were waiting for the bill as I had to drop my daughter off and due to the slow service time was tight. DH told me that he had left a generous tip as the food was delicious, when I looked at the receipt they had also added a service charge, so we had in effect paid twice. We haven’t been back to this place because we were so annoyed that they did that and didn’t even tell us and let us tip twice.

Sambucas?! That doesn't surprise me tbh!

I think that's fair. They all do their bit. One preps veg, someone else usually cooks it, bar staff pours drinks, someone else carries it to the table. Why should the person carrying it to the table get a tip and not those prepping veg or cooking the meal? I think sharing the tips is a much fairer way.

I can answer that for The Ivy (chain ones). I know a young student who works there in holidays. Staff DO NOT get the service charge. They are also made to hand over cash tips. They might get some of the cash ones. But they NEVER get the included service money.

DD works in a restaurant. Tips are all split between staff, both those tips left as cash on the table or those added to a credit card bill or added as a service charge. Tips are split between waiting staff, bar staff and kitchen staff, depending on how many hours tehy have worked that week.

Most jobs don’t get tips, I strongly think people should get a reasonable wage and any tips should be at the discretion of the punter for exceptional service and not routinely added to bills.

There is a new law coming into force in 2024 which means all service charges have to be given to staff

These kind of things always make me smile, realising that the decent places will go on handing it to the staff anyway and the no-so-decent will find some way round it

Personally I'll either tip or pay a service charge unless it's terrible; just let me know what's required and I'll happily do it. What I won't do however is get involved with the inevitable stories about getting stiffed in the hope of a bigger tip ... I don't interfere with the employment of others, so if you have a problem with management take it up with them yourself

I've noticed where there is a service charge added the service is appalling. I always ask for it to be removed.

Tips should be in cash, I would never expect anything else to get to the staff who have performed an excellent service.

I think you should ask for it to be removed, explain it is a point of principle to you (so not about the person who served you), and then leave any tip in cash if you feel it deserves it.

What I object to is when service charges are added to bills, it really annoys me because it puts you in a difficult position if you weren’t going to tip/can’t really afford a tip

As said I'll willingly pay either a service charge or a tip, but the one which winds me up is when they put on a charge AND leave a space for a tip as well ... they've got to be joking

About the place where you tipped then found an added service charge though - surely that was announced on the menu?
Because if it wasn't you'd have been fully entitled to have it removed

Yup. Assume they're all the same but I only know about the 1 they work in!