Stay or go

[Whattodoforthebesteek]

My partner is a very good man who does so much in the house and is very generous, however he is barely present, and it seems to annoy him when I try to bring him into our reality. We have two children (8 and 4) who he loves but he is missing out on them. He likes pretty much everything done his way, he will judge and or comment on what feels like every task I do. He isn’t flexible on many things. We have struggled throughout parenthood with him being vacant then strict, and I agree that one parent should back the other and have a United front, but I rarely agree with his approach or his interpretation or understanding of a situation, which makes this very difficult. I feel his way is making me miss out in our children too, and have done for years. I’ve discussed this with him at length and he says when we have regular good sleep things will be better, they aren’t.

We have recently been on holiday with his family to Lapland, a gift his mum paid for from some recent inheritance. His parents are a retired primary head teacher and retired primary teacher, he also has two adult brothers, neither with a partner nor with children. His brothers also came to Lapland with us, one is a primary head teacher, the other a self confessed narcissist.

They told the kids at the dinner table about 2 weeks before we went, and they got excited and squeeled with delight which I thought was amazing, however the grandad reprimanded them and later said to us that in 39 years of teaching and raising of his own children he had never tolerated such behaviour, and wouldn’t start how. My partners one brother left the dinning room saying, this is why I don’t have kids (my inner voice is listing the real reasons he doesn’t have any children!!!!).

My partner did take them all to task pointing out they are their grandchildren/ nieces and nephews, not children at school, that this was their home life and safe space. The brothers were both apologetic. He later got a text apology from his dad saying, I will do better to not verbalise my expectations of your children’s behaviour, NOT a very good apology in my mind.

The grandad has criticised my parenting many times, and saying generationally we are all poor. He has done this infront of his friends when I’ve been there without my partner. He has clearly stated they should have physical consequences, and in the past, when my boy wasn’t even three, he squished his hand to hurt him TWICE!

I hated the trip, I wasn’t looking forward to going, we were 6 adults and 2 kids, and all the adults judges and tried to control our children, and myself, to the point it was suffocating. The one brother especially was dismissive of me, ignored me, questioned any information I gave, in conversation with three people he would put the other persons name in his sentence to exclude me from responding. He even sent a message to all saying I for only his brothers to respond.
One uncle wrapped and took lego as a Christmas gift for my daughter and they all, my partner included wouldn’t let her open it…. Incase she lost a piece. I couldn’t understand why she was given a
gift she couldn’t play with (we had hours to kill in an apartment with no tv and
limited activities brought from home. I disagreed with everyone and I was reprimanded for not supporting their son and my daughter was accused of being manipulating, crying to get what she wanted working the room until she for
what she wanted. Pretty much the same situation happened the following day with my son. For some unknown reason to me the family spent most of the third day packing to leave, so my children were in the apartment and had 3 hours to kill. My partner packed all of their Christmas gifts and my son was asking for his toy back. His grandad was telling him off, that daddy was packing and to behave. I asked the question, how long till dinner? 3 hours, then I asked, what toys or entertainment has been left out for them? Trying to make eye contact to my partner, none given back. He huffed and took a toy out of the case and his dad just tutted and tutted and said no wonder.

His dad only said one direct comment, he reprimanded my son meaning to say, oi, you’re not the boss of your mother, but accidentally said, oi your mother isn’t your boss. I said, well I am really, to which he said well you’re meant to be!!! He was so happy with himself, I said well I lined that up for you.

His dad tutted and blew out air pretty constantly, shaking his head and making his opinion known throughout. Then he was reprimanded by other family members who implied they agree but he was on a promise not to comment.

My partner wasn’t there for the ‘boss ‘ comment, but throughout the holiday even if he was there he was often mentally absent, he says it’s how he copes with his family, he zones out. So I had to tell him what was said and how upset I was. He obviously felt uncomfortable. He told me to ignore it and to let it go. He keeps saying he doesn’t know how long he has got them for.
Somehow the blame has gone full circle, as he hadn’t seen a lot of the behaviour going on, me telling him, meant I was the problem.

Previously, when the family has done something that he is embarrassed by it, he makes the right supportive noises to me, but within a few weeks he’ll pick an argument with me.

Therefore to prevent this pattern, I tried to talk to him, saying I feel we are being icy with each other and my concern is that although he has agreed his dad and brother were out of line, he seems annoyed with me. He was adamant he wasn’t, but did say he felt I was nit picking at times and I was easily offended and I could have been less prickly. He said what did I expect of him, that he can’t change his family, that he is in the middle. I said so clearly that I don’t expect him to or need him to, but I need us to be unified so I don’t feel so isolated, he didn’t get it. He kept saying he couldn’t change them. I said your not listening, I don’t feel heard.I asked him what he thought he could do to make me feel less isolated, he said he didn’t have a clue, and I need to let things go.

His family celebrate New Year’s Day with a sit down meal and he asked if I wanted us to go. Given we were away from 4am 24th til 5pm 27th, I still feel mentally ill and drained, I was gobsmaked he even asked…. I seriously found the trip exhausting. I had explained to him I felt mentally Ill, I cried coming home on the coach to the airport cos I was so sad. I explained I felt like I had a grey cloud over me. I got nothing other than a comment along the lines, we’ve nearly made it.
I said I didn’t want to be responsible for not going, but I can’t believe he has even asked. He said that it is because of me we aren’t going, I said he needs to look at the wider picture, why I don’t feel strong enough to go, what if I say something in the moment that i can’t come back from? If I break. He became the victim and said I was stopping an important family tradition, his dad might not be here next year and that I was selfish (never actually used that word).

I said I needed a break from the conversation.I did this because our pattern is, I talk, he doesn’t understand me, I try another way, I get exasperated and as soon as I raise my voice it is his get out of jail card, he declares he will not be spoken to like that and disrespected, he walks away and then that is the focus and the original argument is never resolved. The last time, he gathered up the kids for the day out we had planned, saying mummy wasn’t coming and that I would be staying home.
Therefore, this time, I stuck to my guns, I spoke slow and quiet, he raised his voice, I pointed it out and said I was working hard not to. When I couldn’t handle any more conversation whilst staying in a set level tone, I exited.

I went to my mums to set up her Christmas Fitbit and I unexpectedly exploded… I have never ever ever ever behaved that way in 44 years. I was explaining some of the holiday antics, and I just said who are they to judge my children, and then I went, screaming who the hell are they, who who

i was mortified, I apologised to my very shocked and very caring parents, who were heart broken for me, who wrapped me up and just loved me.

I realised having to control my behaviour to still not be heard or understood had literally put me on the edge. It’s not about the in-laws, obviously that doesn’t help, but it’s about repetitive problems in our relationship. I said to my parents if I had screamed like that at home he’d have had ammunition for a life time to call out my behaviour.

AIBU to be disappointed and broken? Should I man up or give up?

Would your husband agree to go for marriage counselling? It sounds like deep down he might know his parents are out of order, but it's easier to blame you than it is to stand up to them. If you can't persuade him to be on your side then yes I think you should leave. You need to protect your own mental health, for your kids sake if nothing else.

Thank you. He has said he will, but we haven’t. I went to counselling alone and my counsellor concluded I was asking for them to fix me so I could cope with him, and be able to ignore and not be offended or saddened by his behaviour or lack of interest/ him not being present. I left that counsellor to start couples counselling as I didn’t think I had enough strength to do both. That was a year ago, and we haven’t done it. The counsellor also said I was enabling his behaviour by tolerating it.
He says he wants an easy life, no drama no arguing but that means no conversations are ever had. We do not connect. He only reaches out if he has upset me, then it’s insane chatter about nothing which provokes me, cos in response to me being lonely and unheard I get gibber jabber.

That sounds completely horrendous.

If you live separately, then do you think he would be able to care for the children when he saw them? How much time do you think he'd want them for, because in my view, the less time they spend with him and his family, the better.

Thank you. That’s my worry, if I go I’m not there to step in if needed for the kids. He can be very good with them and he adores them. I think he’s want them as much as possible so guessing equal split.

We aren’t actually married. I said in laws out of habit.

End it, he won't want the reality of 50:50, they will get a loving relationship modelled by you.

If you stay they are being taught to tread on eggshells.

Once they are at secondary school they will vote with their feet anyway.

I'm sorry you have had such an awful time.
It sounds like he wants to be better, but doesn't have the skills/resources to deal with any if it differently
I think definitely couples counselling and then possibly counselling for him too.
Seems to have a really deep seated fear of upsetting his parents.
Also, I noticed you didn't mention his Mum's behaviour in any of this.
Does she act in a similar way (towards you and the children) to the men in the family, or is she quiet and goes along with whatever the menfolk want, or does she ever stick up for you/give you support?

He isn’t fearful of taking them on, he has done and will do, he just wants an easy life and for things to be ignored as best as possible. He wants a quiet uncomplicated life.

His mum was the best of the bunch whilst we were away, which surprised me greatly as I struggle with her the most. The trip was on her bucket list, not that she has one, and she was the driving force behind it.

At home she can be controlling and quite manipulative, something the four men in her life don’t see, or ignore. The one son especially ignores her or ramrods her and she sees it as endearing, and chuckles around it. Ie she is dieting and not drinking, he will tell her she is and just make her, she giggles??!? On holiday she said morally she could never eat reindeer after seeing them, he made her try it at lunch but she was still saying she could never eat it, I pointed out she just had, and she said well if that’s how you want to see it.

After having my daughter we had 4 miscarriages. After a surgical removal of our first loss, we were going to hers to get our daughter and she stopped me from going in the house and told me that us woman have to go through so much and I can’t give up and that I had to keep going.

She is very sporty and competitive and 9 years younger than her hubby, she finds him aging very difficult. He recently had an op and she played golf. We asked how the op had gone and she said she was at the golf course and whether she rang or not it would be what it is, and had no intension of ringing. We rang at the risk of annoying the others.

Her and the one son planned to go visit at 5pm, I pointed out he may still be in recovery and they said well if he is we’ve still visited and done our duty.

Whilst he was In hospital she asked my partner if I could sit at hers for a delivery so she could play tennis, he explained to her I was at work, she didn’t understand why I couldn’t do it. I didn’t understand why out of 3 kids, they weren’t asked but I was.

I said something about her one son she didn’t like, so when I next dropped my son off at hers as planned (this isn’t very often or a regular set up), she wasn’t in. I rang her and she said her plans had changed she was having a hot choc with her friend. This has happened a few times in different ways.
btw - The son I complained about owed us £700 but had turned up at ours with a new Apple Watch and has now had new windows fitted. She was gloating about how amazing he was doing with money.
I have since asked my partner whether his brother has paid and he has said it’s my brother, my money, what’s it actually got to do with me - which is the trend I mentioned before, he gets embarrassed by their behaviour, when I bring it up he deflects it back to me.

Thank you

Thank you
My mum put up with so much more, and I know other woman do to. I promised myself as a little girl that I’d be financially independent enough to get out if I ever needed, and I’m trying to see if I should go or if I’ve set myself up to fail with my safety net.

They are all awful and toxic, your DP will never have you or your DC back. Extricate yourself and leave them to it.

Thank you.

Of those who have voted I am being unreasonable, if you have the time could you please reach out and explain your view. I’d appreciate it, thank you in advance.

I would say couples counselling might have a small chance of succeeding but he is unlikely to engage with it either by going or within sessions. The whole family set up sounds unbelievably toxic. Ultimately I think you need to leave. Hopefully he won't want to see the children as much as he could ask for.

Your FIL is domineering and controlling and the rest of them sound totally dysfunctional.

Your DP is modelling his father's behaviour ins some respects, when he should be protect you and the DCs from their toxicity.

YANBU to consider leaving, but if I was in your shoes I would give DP one last chance to get couples' counselling. Mind you, I think he would probably benefit more from getting counselling on his own, as he's clearly trying to please his DF, which sounds like a futile thing to do.

Your DP should be protecting you from them, not backing them up in their weird psychodrama.

YANBU.

I honestly think your only option is to leave. Failing that refuse to participate in any of his toxic family activities/holidays going forward. It's ok to protect yourself & your children from these situations. It doesn't sound as if your partner is going to have it out with them. They aren't your in-laws. You owe them nothing.

Thank you all!!

We have discussed couples counselling for 4 years, and then when it hasn’t happened I’ve gone to counselling alone, to be told to do couples counselling, and yet we haven’t. i will ask him again today and see his reaction.

He says I’m good at arguing and making my point and he isn’t, he is just wanting it to be ok, for us to let all the problems go unaddressed, but they then just repeat.

Since I have been back from
my parents after my melt down, just after our attempted discussion. Nothing has been mentioned, we’ve had friends drop by, eaten together, he is relaxing watching films and not approached me in conversation or physically. I assume he is just hoping that I won’t return to the conversation and we will all carry on acting as normal.

Update if anyone is there 🤣

I eventually spoke to him tonight, asked him this morning if we could talk tonight, mainly so I wouldn’t back out. I said that I was unhappy and that i doubted he was either, he agreed there and then no protest no discussion, no revisiting the idea of couples therapy. He said he expected the conversation. No real emotion, until we spoke about the kids when he was very sad, saying this would break them. I said i felt I’d done what I could with various therapies and self exploration and improvement and had done none. He agreed, he said I was too much for him, he couldn’t cope with the disagreements.

there was very little to say after that

he wants me to stay in the house for a minimum of a year with the kids whist he rents

i don’t want to be in this house I want my own safe space, he says that’s too much upheaval for the kids to cope with

he went to bed not long after saying he needed sleep

I am wide awake!!

I suggested we digest our decision and make a plan.

our daughter has a hospital appointment tomorrow so I need to focus on that for now

Oh wow, that seems very short and sweet, but he's given you his answer. He doesn't want to fight for your relationship, doesn't want outside help from counsellor.
You've been through a lot and to be honest, you do sound incompatible.
Probably best not to waste any more time and energy on him or saving the relationship, as he's certainly not going to.
You and the children will be fine.

Thank you! I’m in shock but it’s also for the best.

now just got to work out how to do this bit without too much damage to the children xxx

Well the children sound like they would be better off a mile away from those people. When you said they went mad when the children screamed with excitement over going to Lapland l knew you had seriously weird people on your hands.
It's a little worrying ye are not married so l hope that doesn't affect your rights around your home etc. I would be concerned about the affect those people would have on your children so hopefully your dp won't have too much contact with them when he has the children on his own. In a way l feel a bit sorry for him with such weird parents and in one way he is right...what can he do about their strange ways but that's not your problem and you have put up with enough. Sounds like your own parents are supportive so that's a big help.

It does sound exhausting. I wish you all the best.

I am new to this thread, but I think splitting up is for the best in this case. He doesn't respect you, nor do his brothers or parents. I have a feeling, that, if you stayed married, and either of his parents needed care, they would assign you to it, since they have so little respect for you, your job or your life.

I just hope it doesn't end up being 50/50 with your NVDH. It just sounds like when they are around him, but especially around his parents/brothers, they are on tenterhooks the whole time; which must be horrid for them.