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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

High Income single families losing Child benefit

139 replies

ReturnoftheMe · 30/12/2023 15:30

Hi there - I know this has been talked about extensively over the years, but I wondered if anyone has been following the topic and discussions around it in parliament for the future? Are there any changes to come for the next budget?

I am a single mother with no input from my 2 kids father. I live in London work full time and currently cannot afford to put my 2 year old in nursery as fees are too high, and I am not eligible for any help (fees are 2k + a month in my area). Luckily my mother has stepped in, but without her I'd have to claim benefits and not work, or I'd have to dial down my ambitions and go for a part time job which puts me at a disadvantage in my work place.
This year I will gratefully receive a bonus that just about puts me at the point of not being eligible at all for any Child Benefit down to the penny. This really bothers me because all the families I know all receive it still. Some really high earning self employed couples who manage to complete tax returns that keep them eligible and even my own brother, both him and his wife earn 50k and 46k respectively and they still get CB for their two boys.

When is this going to change in order to be fair for single mothers like myself? I cannot afford nursery and I also do not get any child benefit. Something is incredibly wrong here.

Am I being unreasonable to feel as though this is unfair to single mothers?

OP posts:
Original poster
ReturnoftheMe · 30/12/2023 22:04

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion, I've definitely seen a few good points to consider going forward, will be speaking to my local MP to gauge how many others are in a similar situation, if there are many others coming forward and what the likelihood is of any changes being made.

I am very grateful to get the 30 childcare hours in a couple months for my son, but as for the CB, clearly so many are frustrated by this issue, and "administrative" efforts aside, there simply is no justified or logical reasoning behind this. It's one of the most illogical and disriminatory policies I've ever been affected by. I know the Tories brought it in, but with Labour in power I can't see that they'd want to back the single "high earning" mother. They need to completely get rid of this idea of £50k income being high earning for a mother and two small children, then we can go from there. Instead of feeling down about it, I am going to be dedicating time in 2024 to look further into the development of this shitty policy. I was scared Id get a lot of criticism for bringing this up, but it has helped to hear from so many of you that are in the same situation and hear from those of you who aren't but still see how unfair it all is.

Thanks @Pippippipi I have signed and shared on my social media. @Ottersfortea I am going to check the deadline for paying my bonus into my Pension. Admittedly, I have been too spaced out with all of this to have really understood what my best course of action is, but I am going to also ask HR for some guidance if they have any. Thank you.

OP posts:
WhereGlasses · 30/12/2023 22:18

I agree OP. I am also a single parent on a similar salary and don't receive any child benefit. My sibling, in a couple and partner both earn c£35k each. So £70k total, they get to keep child benefit. But I don't, on £65k.

Aubree17 · 31/12/2023 07:46

Theoneandonlyjrae · 30/12/2023 15:42

Can't you increase pension contributions slightly so you are under £50,000?

Good suggestion. There may be an equalisation point where you are just as well off by paying into your pension.

It's grossly unfair.

RoséProsecco · 31/12/2023 08:11

Totally agree.

I'm about to go over the threshold too.

It would be so easy to administer by self assessment, perhaps a pain in the arse to do but it could be as simple as a tick box.

I don't see how the argument about the complexity of administration adds up in these circumstances.

TrashedSofa · 31/12/2023 08:23

TheresaWa · 30/12/2023 21:21

What could be done to this unfair "system" to be changed? What's the legislative/Parliament way ?

Make CB universal again, as it has been for the majority of the time since it was introduced.

Workworkandmoreworknow · 31/12/2023 08:42

I think the idea is if you're earning a certain amount you don't need benefits?

If that's the case, then make the threshold household income, not individual. You can't argue that £60k is somehow 'sufficient' in a single parent household but allow a 2 income household to claim when they are bringing in £90k.

BibbleandSqwauk · 31/12/2023 08:46

But with "household" income, what if you live with extended family? Should aunt or uncle or grandparent of working age income count? I don't disagree at all it is unfair but it would need refining to "household income of those with parental responsibility" or similar.

TrashedSofa · 31/12/2023 09:01

Workworkandmoreworknow · 31/12/2023 08:42

I think the idea is if you're earning a certain amount you don't need benefits?

If that's the case, then make the threshold household income, not individual. You can't argue that £60k is somehow 'sufficient' in a single parent household but allow a 2 income household to claim when they are bringing in £90k.

Additionally, it's possible to earn too much for full CB whilst also being entitled to some UC. It happens. So that isn't the explanation either.

Original poster
ReturnoftheMe · 31/12/2023 11:13

@TrashedSofa what? How is that possible?

@Workworkandmoreworknow exactly, your point hits the nail on the head.

OP posts:
TrashedSofa · 31/12/2023 11:17

ReturnoftheMe · 31/12/2023 11:13

@TrashedSofa what? How is that possible?

@Workworkandmoreworknow exactly, your point hits the nail on the head.

As far as I can tell, you need very high rent and childcare costs to be eligible. But some people do. About 50,000 families in 2022, according to this.

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/press-releases/childrens-benefits-mess-leaves-families-facing-effective-tax-rates-of-80-to-96-per-cent/

The number will likely be a bit higher now as rent, childcare and average salaries have all gone up in the last year but the child benefit thresholds have remained frozen.

‘Children’s benefits mess’ leaves families facing effective tax rates of 80 to 96 per cent • Resolution Foundation

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/press-releases/childrens-benefits-mess-leaves-families-facing-effective-tax-rates-of-80-to-96-per-cent

DonnaBanana · 31/12/2023 11:42

It is a very silly policy. Surely the government wants to encourage people to have children as they’ll be future tax payers and the ones paying towards our pensions one day. To then dissuade the most accomplished and well earning people from having children is ridiculous because they are more likely to raise children who aren’t a net burden on the state. It’s back to front really. They should be encouraging high earners to have more children to fill the demographic gap

wronginalltherightways · 31/12/2023 12:07

DonnaBanana · 31/12/2023 11:42

It is a very silly policy. Surely the government wants to encourage people to have children as they’ll be future tax payers and the ones paying towards our pensions one day. To then dissuade the most accomplished and well earning people from having children is ridiculous because they are more likely to raise children who aren’t a net burden on the state. It’s back to front really. They should be encouraging high earners to have more children to fill the demographic gap

You will get hammered for your comment, but I agree with you.

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 31/12/2023 13:16

wronginalltherightways · 31/12/2023 12:07

You will get hammered for your comment, but I agree with you.

Show quote history

Me too, it’s a very good point.

Wateroverwine · 31/12/2023 13:35

Absolutely unfair as you're contributing however the government see this as having children is your choice. We are lucky to get anything for having children, in other countries that's why you always have to be married before giving birth

Not agreeing with it but just see it as it's a choice you made you need to deal with it

Wateroverwine · 31/12/2023 13:38

DonnaBanana · 31/12/2023 11:42

It is a very silly policy. Surely the government wants to encourage people to have children as they’ll be future tax payers and the ones paying towards our pensions one day. To then dissuade the most accomplished and well earning people from having children is ridiculous because they are more likely to raise children who aren’t a net burden on the state. It’s back to front really. They should be encouraging high earners to have more children to fill the demographic gap

Agree as well but people will disagree because for whatever reason, some don't believe having children is a choice with all the birth control methods out there. If you can't afford children don't have them.

MrNovember · 31/12/2023 13:44

Sd1960 · 30/12/2023 16:00

£65k not a huge income? It’s like a parallel universe on here sometimes.

If OP is in London or another high cost area then it’s really not.

take home is about £3600. She already pays £2k in childcare, leaving her £1600 to live on. If she lives in London then that £1600 will be swallowed up by rent / mortgage. Not to mention everything else she needs to live

Circe7 · 31/12/2023 14:43

@MrNovember
And a couple each earning minimum wage working full time would bring home c.£3k per month net and probably get some benefits. There is a significant penalty within the tax system to being a single income household.

Halfemptyhalfling · 31/12/2023 14:47

This is one of the many ways that the conservatives have undermined women and children. Even two parent rich families have more expenses and often a drop in income with a new baby. And a means tested benefit is much more complex and expensive to administer

AfterXmas · 31/12/2023 15:12

Yes, it should be household income but I am a single parent with 4 children on a very low income and could only dream about earning the amount you do.
Lots of things are unfair on single parents, inheritance tax is another one. As I understand it, 2 married people will have double the inheritance tax allowance for their children if they leave their home to them. Unmarried single parents will only get the one allowance, which if you live in the southeast, will likely leave your kids with an inheritance tax bill. I worry about this as I have kids with Sen and would like them to be able to stay in their home should something happen to me.
Also, I am a widow not eligible to claim any other benefits as I was left with a relatively small amount of life insurance. Yet, if I had divorced, any maintenance would be disregarded so a lot of my divorced friends are in a much better position than me. When my money runs out, I will have no maintenance to help me. That also seems unfair to me but others will disagree.
Life is already hard for single parents but couples seem to be given additional advantages.

Thatswhy11 · 31/12/2023 15:32

I can't understand this argument, single mum too. If you are earning a decent salary surely £90 odd pound a month isn't really neither here or there. For the couples part who can each earn 45k each yes that's unfair and a silly rule.

MrNovember · 31/12/2023 15:42

Catterbat · 30/12/2023 16:41

You earn £60k so you don’t need it. The threshold is far too high and the money would be better diverted towards those that do.

She does need it. £65k is about £3600 per month after tax. She then pays £2k Per month for nursery fees. So that leaves £1600.

many lower earners think that £60k is a fortune. But many lower earners are propped up by multiple benefits and pay a hell of a lot less tax than the higher earners; and with the cost of working (childcare, travel) many are not rolling in it… especially a single parent in a an expensive part of the country

Wherearemybooks · 31/12/2023 15:52

Yep. It was utter cowardice of the government. They basically got some flack so quickly changed it to this half baked scheme which is blatantly unfair, but which they thought no-one would care about.

Alcyoneus · 31/12/2023 15:56

OP, your concern is fair. Basically anyone supporting themselves in this country is milked for every last penny. Which is why we have such a dependent, unproductive population on welfare.

The main thing here is how your children’s father is allowed to get away without paying for his kids. This government, the civil servicants managing CMS and the like are utterly incompetent.

wronginalltherightways · 31/12/2023 16:03

Alcyoneus · 31/12/2023 15:56

OP, your concern is fair. Basically anyone supporting themselves in this country is milked for every last penny. Which is why we have such a dependent, unproductive population on welfare.

The main thing here is how your children’s father is allowed to get away without paying for his kids. This government, the civil servicants managing CMS and the like are utterly incompetent.

100%

I'm rather fed up of working hard and watching people around here not work at all and have more holidays and nicer cars, clothes and things than we do.

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