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Original poster

Clumsy use of the word "as" in headlines

28 replies

beachies · 30/12/2023 08:32

Example from the BBC website today: "Wind and rain warnings as Eurostar trains cancelled."

I know headlines need to be brief, but to me this sounds like the weather warnings are due to the trains being cancelled, rather than the other way round. It's only a very mild irritation, but it's pretty regular, so I'm wondering if others notice it too.

Possible alternatives could be:

"Wind and rain warnings and Eurostar trains cancelled."

"Wind and rain warnings bring Eurostar cancellations"

"Eurostar trains cancelled amidst wind and rain warnings"

OP posts:
Ktime · 30/12/2023 08:36

Hmm, I’m not an expert on grammar but I don’t think ‘as’ implies the weather warnings are due to the trains being cancelled, I think it sounds like they are happening concurrently.

I could be wrong but I do prefer the BBC phrasing over your suggestions. But maybe that’s just because it’s ‘in print’ and therefore some sort of confirmation bias is in play.

MistletoeRegrets · 30/12/2023 08:36

Yup. Can’t argue with what you say, OP.

But I see others do … 🤷‍♀️

LordEmsworth · 30/12/2023 08:36

It's perfectly ok English. "As" can be used to mean either "in consequence of", or "at the same time". Among its many other meanings...

Laszlomydarling · 30/12/2023 08:37

To me it sounds like both things are happening together.
Weather warnings and cancellations are both happening. I doubt anyone will think that train cancellations are causing bad weather.

I am drinking my coffee as my daughter watches tv. Both are happening together.

DappledThings · 30/12/2023 08:40

sounds like the weather warnings are due to the trains being cancelled, rather than the other way round
Doesn't read that way to me. It just sounds like the two things are happening at the same time.

TinySaltLick · 30/12/2023 08:42

It just means concurrently, the reader can infer any causation as it is widely known trains don't typically control the weather

Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 08:56

Laszlomydarling · 30/12/2023 08:37

To me it sounds like both things are happening together.
Weather warnings and cancellations are both happening. I doubt anyone will think that train cancellations are causing bad weather.

I am drinking my coffee as my daughter watches tv. Both are happening together.

Yes, they're happening together, but the headline is trying to convey a connection - one is happening because of the other. As written, the connection isn't well articulated.

Your example is different, because there is no specific connection implied.

OP posts:
quisensoucie · 30/12/2023 09:00

@LordEmsworth In such cases as would be used differently in sentence
As a result of wind and rain, eurostar services are cancelled

qpalbfy · 30/12/2023 09:03

But isn't the connection broader and essentially the news today?

Penguinsandpuffins · 30/12/2023 09:05

They must agree with you - they’ve changed it! 😀

Penguinsandpuffins · 30/12/2023 09:05

Now “Eurostar trains cancelled amid wind, rain and snow warnings”

Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 09:23

Penguinsandpuffins · 30/12/2023 09:05

Now “Eurostar trains cancelled amid wind, rain and snow warnings”

Ha! Either they read Mumsnet, or I'm not the only one to pick them up on it.

The BBC often change their clumsy headlines - I suspect they have cut back on pre-publication quality checks, and are relying on post-publication feedback instead.

OP posts:
LordEmsworth · 30/12/2023 11:39

quisensoucie · 30/12/2023 09:00

@LordEmsworth In such cases as would be used differently in sentence
As a result of wind and rain, eurostar services are cancelled

As I was walking in to town, it started raining.

Would you genuinely interpret that to mean - it started raining as a result of me walking in to town?

quisensoucie · 30/12/2023 12:01

No @LordEmsworth I would not. It is not the same as my example, which said 'as a result of...'

LordEmsworth · 30/12/2023 12:24

quisensoucie · 30/12/2023 12:01

No @LordEmsworth I would not. It is not the same as my example, which said 'as a result of...'

Edited

I don't understand your initial point then. Unless you're saying that the OP is wrong, and "as" can not be used alone to mean "as a result of". Which it can, as the OP points out, the headline could be read either way and both would be correct...

Abitofalark · 30/12/2023 12:38

There's nothing wrong with the grammar or clarity of meaning in the headline. It's simply telling us in a neat headline form that things are happening simultaneously. You are reading something into it that it doesn't imply or state.

Raffington55 · 30/12/2023 12:42

beachies · 30/12/2023 08:32

Example from the BBC website today: "Wind and rain warnings as Eurostar trains cancelled."

I know headlines need to be brief, but to me this sounds like the weather warnings are due to the trains being cancelled, rather than the other way round. It's only a very mild irritation, but it's pretty regular, so I'm wondering if others notice it too.

Possible alternatives could be:

"Wind and rain warnings and Eurostar trains cancelled."

"Wind and rain warnings bring Eurostar cancellations"

"Eurostar trains cancelled amidst wind and rain warnings"

This is a news thing. It's a specific news style used to keep headlines punchy and brief. I used to work for Bloomberg and we were encouraged to write headlines like this, and to use the dreaded 'amid' in headlines also -- always seemed out of place
and ugly to me, though it's very handy!

Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 13:05

quisensoucie · 30/12/2023 12:01

No @LordEmsworth I would not. It is not the same as my example, which said 'as a result of...'

Edited

@LordEmsworth is missing the point of the headline. It isn't describing two unconnected events, it's describing a cause and effect relationship between two events. It may be grammatically acceptable to many people, but it is clumsy and could be better. As it's the BBC, it is reasonable to expect better.

OP posts:
curtaintwitcher78 · 30/12/2023 13:08

Owing to, not due to.

Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 13:13

Abitofalark · 30/12/2023 12:38

There's nothing wrong with the grammar or clarity of meaning in the headline. It's simply telling us in a neat headline form that things are happening simultaneously. You are reading something into it that it doesn't imply or state.

The point is that they are more than two simultaneous events. The headline is clumsy precisely because it expects the reader to make the connection, rather than clearly conveying the connection.

As a pp mentioned, the headline was subsequently changed to something more eloquent.

OP posts:
Didimum · 30/12/2023 13:14

I agree (kind of), but your alternatives are not as easily read. Too many ‘ands’, ‘cancellations’, ‘amidst’. Headlines not only need to be brief but immediately understood. As such, I think the current headline is most likely the best. No one, after all, is going to misconstrue the connection between the two.

OldTinHat · 30/12/2023 13:18

This is the best typo I've seen about the weather in the past couple of days!

Clumsy use of the word "as" in headlines
Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 13:18

Raffington55 · 30/12/2023 12:42

This is a news thing. It's a specific news style used to keep headlines punchy and brief. I used to work for Bloomberg and we were encouraged to write headlines like this, and to use the dreaded 'amid' in headlines also -- always seemed out of place
and ugly to me, though it's very handy!

Show quote history

Yes, it follows a traditional style, but badly. The headline's author has been trained, but badly. They should know when it is appropriate to use 'as' and when it is appropriate to use 'amid'.

I'm the daughter of a journalist. My dad used to proof-read and red-pen my homework, so I can't help noticing these things. I'm glad at least a few other purists agree with me. 😁

OP posts:
Original poster
beachies · 30/12/2023 13:20

Didimum · 30/12/2023 13:14

I agree (kind of), but your alternatives are not as easily read. Too many ‘ands’, ‘cancellations’, ‘amidst’. Headlines not only need to be brief but immediately understood. As such, I think the current headline is most likely the best. No one, after all, is going to misconstrue the connection between the two.

As a pp pointed out, they changed the headline after I started the thread. It became "Eurostar trains cancelled amid wind, rain and snow warnings" which is much better

OP posts:
honeyytoast · 30/12/2023 13:28

I spot stuff like this all the time and I think I’m in the wrong job. I work in hospitality but our company’s webpages (major chain), especially internal ones, are littered with minor errors/clumsy wording and I want to be appointed to fix them all lol