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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to expect motorists to concentrate on driving properly, instead of correcting cyclists' behaviour?

43 replies

Triathlete · 16/03/2008 19:32

Motorists kill 2,500 people a year on UK roads, and injure another 20,000 a year. Cyclists don't.

Cycle facilities are laughably bad, stopping and starting without warning, poorly designed, badly built.

Helmets only help people AFTER an collision has happened, they don't make cycling any safer, they just alleviate some of the consequences of a crash.

Some cyclists cycle on pavements and jump red lights. Many more motorists talk on mobiles, deliberately intimidate other road users, fiddle with cigarettes/radio/papers/laptop.

Cyclists are reducing congestion, the load on the NHS, air pollution and global warming. Motorists aren't.

If a cyclist makes a mistake, they'll probably hurt themselves. If a motorist makes a mistake, they'll probably hurt someone else.

Some cyclists cycle without lights and reflective gear. They'll learn. Many motorists drive with defective brakes, defective lights, no insurance, no licence. They couldn't give a stuff.

Most cyclists are also drivers and so they know about how cars, pedestrians and bikes mix. Most motorists are not cyclists, so they haven't a clue how scary it is when oh-so-important school-run-mum whips past at 6 inches away at 40mph in her 4x4.

Cyclists (and horseriders, skateboarders, joggers and so on) have an automatic right to use the road. Motorists are permitted to use the road so long as A) they have a driving licence, which can be withdrawn if they behave badly B) their car is safe, as shown by the MoT, and C) they pay vehicle excise duty, a charge based on the amount of pollution their car produces.

Cyclists contribute to the upkeep of the roads through general and council tax. However they don't cause anything like the damage to roads and buildings that motorists do.

You can kill someone in your car, and get away with a fine and a suspended licence.

And yet despite all the above, a majority of people see cyclists as aggressive, irresponsible, reprehensible road users. Why? It baffles me.

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 17/03/2008 11:34

Yes nancy, pedestrians are at the bottom of the food chain

beaniesteve · 17/03/2008 11:35

Jesus!

there are SOME bad cyclists
There are SOME bad drivers
There are some BAD pedestrians.

Can't we all just try to be better and stop tarring everyone with the 'bad' stick?

FrannyandZooey · 17/03/2008 11:37

sorry to say 'careful cycling' and particularly "extremely careful cycling" is not the safest way to go

assertive / aggressive cycling actually leads to fewer accidents and is safer for the cyclist

Upwind · 17/03/2008 11:40

Fluffyanimal - I only do it when obviously and absolutely safe. If there are pedestrians around I don't do it.

On a bicycle you are slow and very unlikely to collide with anyone. Yes I know it can happen and undoubtedly has happened. But if it means that I am considerably safer and nobody else is inconvenienced, let alone in danger I will continue to turn left on red lights.

Of course the law should and would side with a pedestrian in a notional accident caused by a cyclist as you describe. So what?

The statistics show how vulnerable cyclists are.

tinylady · 17/03/2008 11:42

God, why don't we just get rid of roads altogether?
Or only allow ambulances, heavy goods vehicles, and buses on them?
Imagine, you could let most of them become overgrown play areas for children

Sidge · 17/03/2008 11:51

I think many cyclist are very naive as to how much damage they can actually cause if they do hit someone. A patient of mine was hit by a cyclist whilst she was crossing a pedestrian crossing on the green man. She ended up in hospital having a surgical repair of a fractured arm, cheekbone and eye socket.

Many cyclists don't see themselves as road users, they use the pavements even when cycle lanes are provided and disregard red lights, zebra crossings, roundabouts, junctions and no left/right turn signs. My heart jumps when cyclists come whizzing out of a junction without giving way - why do they think that just because they are bikes they don't have to follow the rules of the road?

Just look at that link Overmydeadbody provided - cyclists with no regard for road safety at all!!

tinylady · 17/03/2008 11:53

We could astroturf many underused roads and give children a chance to plant things.
There are too many unneccessary journeys undertaken.

VictorianSqualor · 17/03/2008 12:16

The mount of tosspot cyclists I see on the road in Oxford is a lot mroe than the amount of tosspot drivers I see.

I'm not either but as Oxford is used so much by cyclists there are cycle paths on the road, yet cyclists seem to think that going anywhere they want on the road and weaving in and out of cars is fine.

It's really bloody dangerous!

Yesterday, coming round a blind corner in the road DP had to slam on his brakes (not really an issue as we were going slowly) to avoid hitting one of three children who were out on their bikes, along with (I assume) their dad, all riding along side-by-side with the ADULT closed to the kerb and the children on the wrong side of the road!

Don't get me wrong, I believe motorists can be just as stupid and as their vehicle is bigger are more likely to hurt someone but please tell that to my friends Dad who was hit by a cyclist, a very drunk cyclist that came bombing down a hill and smashed straight into his windscreen, the cyclist was fine, her Dad was the one that was injured.

BMWX5 · 17/03/2008 12:53

It's simple isn't it? Just give them a little nudge with the nearside bumper as you go by. ;-)

bluesky · 18/03/2008 09:55

triathlete only posted this thread to "ruffle feathers on mumsnet" as apparently we speak a "load of tripe" and then invited other members of www.cyclechat.co.uk, via a link to come on over and "feel free to get stuck in".

Sad little triathlete, nothing better to do then .....

OrmIrian · 18/03/2008 11:01

Odd

Triathlete · 18/03/2008 13:12

I started this thread as I was dismayed by the nonsense spouted by many members of this board regarding cyclists. I wanted to present some facts, and some opinions, and the cyclist's point of view.

I'm a cyclist, a driver, a pedestrian and all-round user of public space. I can guarantee that at least once on my daily commute my life will be threatened by some careless, agressive or stupid driving.

Cycling benefits both the individual and society, for many reasons, yet when it is mentioned in public discussion the overwhelming response is negative.

Personally I think that this is because motorists know how much damage they are doing to their health, their children's health, the shared public space, and the environment, yet they don't feel that they have the power or the responsibility to do anything about it. Yet everytime a cyclist sails past, fitter and more free, they are reminded of this. This tension causes the ire and bile that is so characteristic of many motorists' response to cyclists.

Perhaps my thread hasn't achieved its aims. Still, I've had a bit of fun, both here and on cyclechat, where my login is Twenty Inch.

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 18/03/2008 13:21

"I can guarantee that at least once on my daily commute my life will be threatened by some careless, agressive or stupid driving.
"

I'm not a cyclist but a runner, walker and driver and I agree with you, triathlete. I think that driving makes people fairly short-fused and the levels of modern congestion make it worse. Cyclists just happen to be an extra irritant and an easy target because they force drivers to slow down sometimes and think about what they are doing.

But some cyclists do not help themselves by some of their habits, especially with regard to their behaviour around pedestrians.

fluffyanimal · 18/03/2008 13:27

I am a cyclist, pedestrian and motorist too, and am regularly irritated by some other pedestrians, motorists and cyclists who do daft things.

Mostly though, I am irritated by people starting deliberately inflammatory threads...

Trolleydolly71 · 18/03/2008 13:32

Message withdrawn

Triathlete · 18/03/2008 15:57

@ fluffy - what on earth are you doing on mumsnet then?

@ trolley - the car is far too close to the cyclist in that case. This is usually because the driver doesn't know how close they are. It's difficult to scratch a car with your bike without ending up under the car.

OP posts:
Trolleydolly71 · 18/03/2008 16:50

Message withdrawn

Triathlete · 18/03/2008 16:58

Trolleydolly

That's bad, irresponsible cycling and bad behaviour and I wouldn't condone it.

Picture this: A taxi pulls a u-turn without looking or indicating and puts me in hospital.

A driver looks at me, figures he can beat me and pulls onto the roundabout - but he t-bones me instead.

An uninsured, unlicensed, illegal, mini-cabber figures he can beat me on a junction (my priority) and puts me in hospital.

Another taxi runs me over and then tells me he can round up five taxi-driver witnesses who will say whatever he wants them to.

The costs for cyclists in these incidents are much higher. I'm not on a crusade against the car, because that's silly, or against motorists, because I am one. But I saw how the dialogue around cyclists was on this forum and decided to get a discussion going.

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