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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think a diverse staff force in a Nursery is an asset, not a drop in quality?

276 replies

WhataPlank · 28/12/2023 11:56

I own a small, rural nursery school.
We, like every other nursery in the UK, really struggle with staffing but have recently secured three wonderful Practitioners to join our small team.
All are very experienced, very caring, speak perfect English and are completely qualified; one from Kenya, one from India and one from Romania.

The most important thing for me is having well trained staff who genuinely love and care for the children and ensure their learning and development is on track. On top of that, I think having such a diverse workforce is a massive asset particularly in an area where the children wouldn't necessarily get much exposure to different cultures. We already did regular diversity events (such as a Holi, Ramadan, St Patricks, Divali etc) and the new staff will all host their own Nursery activities to celebrate their cultures.

But I've heard several complaints (two directly to me as the owner, and many more "gossip/rumours") that our nursery has "cheapened" and "been taken over" and is generally being viewed as lower quality due to the staff not all being British. Some people have expressed concerns that their training would not meet the requirements of the EYFS and that the children's education will be of lower quality. It has been implied that the staff's native qualifications are not comparable to British ones.

AIBU to think this is simply pure racism and that staff diversity should be viewed as a massive asset to our community/children?

(In case it needs mentioning, I've gone out of my way to ensure the staff feel welcome and comfortable with their relocation.)

OP posts:
ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:41

and yet you appear to look down on the rural way of life... I'm pretty sure there's another side to this
Where on earth does OP appear to look down on the rural way of life?!

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:44

@Elfoutthewindow
Ican imagine a story of experienced local staff being pushed out by someone who sneers at local ways, to be replaced by internationally recruited people with paper qualifications

"I can imagine...."
You said it yourself, made yourself up a little scenario in your own head there.
🙄

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:44

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:41

and yet you appear to look down on the rural way of life... I'm pretty sure there's another side to this
Where on earth does OP appear to look down on the rural way of life?!

The fact that rural is bolded before she makes accusations of racism.

And, I quote, "We only moved to the area ourselves 4 years ago and my opinions may be biased as I have found there to be a very close minded ethos in this area"

It doesn't sound like OP respects the culture of the area she only recently moved to.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 28/12/2023 13:45

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:40

What happened with the staff at the nursery when you took over? You've recruited internationally by the sounds of it... Are you offering apprenticeships with ongoing roles, etc, to those in the local community?

You've moved somewhere, and started a business that requires locals to accept you and trust you with their children, and yet you appear to look down on the rural way of life... I'm pretty sure there's another side to this.

I can imagine a story of experienced local staff being pushed out by someone who sneers at local ways, to be replaced by internationally recruited people with paper qualifications, but not the experience of those pushed out, at a cheaper rate than those locally would accept. Many parents, especially those from close knit rural communities, want Mrs Twigg, who looked after me when I was at nursery, looking after their baby. They may not care whether Mrs Twigg has an NVQ, because Ms Twigg was their best mate, and Mr Twigg is now their brother in law, and they used to babysit baby Twiggs. If you're an outsider, and you've jumped to racism being your first thought... I think maybe some self reflection could be in order. You may just not understand.

If you want a viable nursery, you need the community on board, especially in rural areas. Labelling them immediately as racists, rather than thinking "most people aren't racist, I wonder what their concerns are?" will not make you a successful business.

Cheapen and taking over are racist comments. As is the assumption that the people taken on are either less experienced or being paid less. I think the self reflection may need to go right back to you tbh

Also you seemed to have missed the bit about struggling with staffing in the OP and seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the OP has somehow sacked the experienced and well paid local staff in order to replace them with "cheap and inexperienced outsiders"

And for context I both grew up in and live in a rural community and I can still recognise the racism...

Thementalloadisreal · 28/12/2023 13:47

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:40

What happened with the staff at the nursery when you took over? You've recruited internationally by the sounds of it... Are you offering apprenticeships with ongoing roles, etc, to those in the local community?

You've moved somewhere, and started a business that requires locals to accept you and trust you with their children, and yet you appear to look down on the rural way of life... I'm pretty sure there's another side to this.

I can imagine a story of experienced local staff being pushed out by someone who sneers at local ways, to be replaced by internationally recruited people with paper qualifications, but not the experience of those pushed out, at a cheaper rate than those locally would accept. Many parents, especially those from close knit rural communities, want Mrs Twigg, who looked after me when I was at nursery, looking after their baby. They may not care whether Mrs Twigg has an NVQ, because Ms Twigg was their best mate, and Mr Twigg is now their brother in law, and they used to babysit baby Twiggs. If you're an outsider, and you've jumped to racism being your first thought... I think maybe some self reflection could be in order. You may just not understand.

If you want a viable nursery, you need the community on board, especially in rural areas. Labelling them immediately as racists, rather than thinking "most people aren't racist, I wonder what their concerns are?" will not make you a successful business.

Wow that’s a really long winded way to justify racism.
And your assumptions say a lot about you!

Moving to a rural area doesn’t mean you have to tiptoe around their ignorance!

Neitheronethingnortheother · 28/12/2023 13:47

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:44

The fact that rural is bolded before she makes accusations of racism.

And, I quote, "We only moved to the area ourselves 4 years ago and my opinions may be biased as I have found there to be a very close minded ethos in this area"

It doesn't sound like OP respects the culture of the area she only recently moved to.

Why should someone respect a closed minded culture

I lived in a town in England for awhile that was hideously racist (people used to pride themselves on how white it was and mention it as a selling point). I, as an outsider and an incomer in no way respected that ethos or culture just because it was the way is was there

Some things about culture and tradition in any areas can be respected others can't.

mynameiscalypso · 28/12/2023 13:47

roarrfeckingroar · 28/12/2023 13:28

Fair enough but I don't think it's a rare view about middle England that focusing on British values and traditions should be the focus. It's not my view but then I'm in central London.

But other religious celebrations are British culture too aren't they? British Muslins celebrate Ramadan etc.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 28/12/2023 13:48

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:44

The fact that rural is bolded before she makes accusations of racism.

And, I quote, "We only moved to the area ourselves 4 years ago and my opinions may be biased as I have found there to be a very close minded ethos in this area"

It doesn't sound like OP respects the culture of the area she only recently moved to.

If the culture is racist, does it deserve respect? I grew up in a rural area of Wales without much diversity and find lots of the locals to be racist, some outwardly and unashamedly and others who would certainly protest the idea but whose words and attitudes are undoubtedly racist.

It’s okay not to respect aspects of the local ‘culture’ in small UK towns when they go against UK culture as a whole in terms of being racist/ xenophobic etc.

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:48

And for context I both grew up in and live in a rural community and I can still recognise the racism...
Same, as in grew up in a very rural white community and can recognise it too.

HelloOhHell · 28/12/2023 13:50

It doesn’t “feel like racism”, it IS racism….

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:50

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:44

@Elfoutthewindow
Ican imagine a story of experienced local staff being pushed out by someone who sneers at local ways, to be replaced by internationally recruited people with paper qualifications

"I can imagine...."
You said it yourself, made yourself up a little scenario in your own head there.
🙄

So has OP. She's told a herself and us a story of a terrible racist backwater.

I suspect there is another side.

The nursery has been taken over- by OP four years ago or less. And "cheapen" depends on how much she's paying, compared with local going rates.

If OP moved to an area she has found closed minded, and doesn't like, and taken over an unviable nursery (severe recruitment issues), then that's an interesting choice for OP to make.

By all means, OP, tell them you think they're racist, ignore any other explanation. I just don't think that will integrate you into the community you've chosen to live in, or result in a viable childcare business in the longer term.

mynameiscalypso · 28/12/2023 13:50

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:40

What happened with the staff at the nursery when you took over? You've recruited internationally by the sounds of it... Are you offering apprenticeships with ongoing roles, etc, to those in the local community?

You've moved somewhere, and started a business that requires locals to accept you and trust you with their children, and yet you appear to look down on the rural way of life... I'm pretty sure there's another side to this.

I can imagine a story of experienced local staff being pushed out by someone who sneers at local ways, to be replaced by internationally recruited people with paper qualifications, but not the experience of those pushed out, at a cheaper rate than those locally would accept. Many parents, especially those from close knit rural communities, want Mrs Twigg, who looked after me when I was at nursery, looking after their baby. They may not care whether Mrs Twigg has an NVQ, because Ms Twigg was their best mate, and Mr Twigg is now their brother in law, and they used to babysit baby Twiggs. If you're an outsider, and you've jumped to racism being your first thought... I think maybe some self reflection could be in order. You may just not understand.

If you want a viable nursery, you need the community on board, especially in rural areas. Labelling them immediately as racists, rather than thinking "most people aren't racist, I wonder what their concerns are?" will not make you a successful business.

There's an absolutely massive crisis in the recruitment and retention of staff in nurseries. It doesn't surprise me at all that you either have to deliberately recruit internationally in the same way the NHS does in order to actually staff them properly.

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:51

MolkosTeenageAngst · 28/12/2023 13:48

If the culture is racist, does it deserve respect? I grew up in a rural area of Wales without much diversity and find lots of the locals to be racist, some outwardly and unashamedly and others who would certainly protest the idea but whose words and attitudes are undoubtedly racist.

It’s okay not to respect aspects of the local ‘culture’ in small UK towns when they go against UK culture as a whole in terms of being racist/ xenophobic etc.

Ahhh, cultural supremacy is ok when you're doing it. Got it.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 28/12/2023 13:53

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:51

Ahhh, cultural supremacy is ok when you're doing it. Got it.

You think employing foreign staff in a nursery during a childcare retention crisis and not liking that some people make racist comments about it is cultural supremacy? WTactualF

Flubadubba · 28/12/2023 13:55

The best key workers my daughter had were not British. One was Polish, and the other was Romanian. Both incredibly well qualified (one had a teaching qualification) and both amazing with children. As a parent, I don't care where the staff come from (though diversity is a very, very good thing, and my daughter learnt a lot about different countries, cultures and traditions from nursery staff) I just want them to be good.

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:55

You think employing foreign staff in a nursery during a childcare retention crisis and not liking that some people make racist comments about it is cultural supremacy? WTactualF

Yeah, WTF was my response too . Then decided to ignore
Cuckoo 😁

MolkosTeenageAngst · 28/12/2023 13:57

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 13:51

Ahhh, cultural supremacy is ok when you're doing it. Got it.

I don’t think it’s cultural supremacy to say that racism/ xenophobia etc are not okay. Expressing racism is largely illegal under British law and the OP is talking about a part of the UK, if the OP should be promoting British values then this would include celebrating diversity and not being racist! Being racist is not part of UK culture, if there are areas of the UK in which this is the norm then yes, it’s okay to challenge this and it’s not about ‘cultural supremacy.’ You can celebrate aspects of a local culture without accepting racist views which, aside from anything else, would go against the law if they resulted in discrimination or were seen as a hate speech/ crime etc.

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 14:00

No, I think the comment that rural cultures don't matter, and therefore we can look down on them is.

Good luck with your business OP. I'm sure you're right, and you can blame the horrible racists of rural communities. I'm sure everyone is right and there could be nothing else at play here, just those horrible racist country folk that you're so much better than.

OdeToBarney · 28/12/2023 14:00

mynameiscalypso · 28/12/2023 13:47

But other religious celebrations are British culture too aren't they? British Muslins celebrate Ramadan etc.

Apparently not. They have to be white British to be British!

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 14:05

I'm sure you're right, and you can blame the horrible racists of rural communities. I'm sure everyone is right and there could be nothing else at play here, just those horrible racist country folk that you're so much better than
😕😂 Biscuit

MolkosTeenageAngst · 28/12/2023 14:06

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 14:00

No, I think the comment that rural cultures don't matter, and therefore we can look down on them is.

Good luck with your business OP. I'm sure you're right, and you can blame the horrible racists of rural communities. I'm sure everyone is right and there could be nothing else at play here, just those horrible racist country folk that you're so much better than.

I don’t think rural cultures don’t matter, I am happy to celebrate many aspects of the Welsh culture I grew up, I attended YFC as a child for example and still go back each year to go to the county show. That doesn’t mean every aspect of the culture should be accepted, where people have racist views these should be challenged and I also challenge the idea that racism is an integral part of any culture. You can celebrate culture through embracing the food, celebrations, festivals, language, dress, ceremony, tradition etc - you don’t have to respect or embrace racism, xenophobia, judgement and discrimination towards others. Not every person within rural cultures will hold these small minded views either so it’s ridiculous to suggest they are integral to it. It’s possible to celebrate a culture without respecting every part of it, especially those which are clearly harmful to society in a wider sense.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 28/12/2023 14:07

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 14:00

No, I think the comment that rural cultures don't matter, and therefore we can look down on them is.

Good luck with your business OP. I'm sure you're right, and you can blame the horrible racists of rural communities. I'm sure everyone is right and there could be nothing else at play here, just those horrible racist country folk that you're so much better than.

No, I think the comment that rural cultures don't matter, and therefore we can look down on them is.

No one has said that and several of us have said we come from rural communities ourselves. I can trace my ancestry on my mother's side in my area back to medieval times (not so much my father's!)

So as a member of a rural community, as someone whose family has been there years am I not allowed to criticise aspects of that communities culture? If I want the culture to be less racist do I not get a say too?

Perhaps if the people making the comments weren't racist and there was "something else at play" they could stop making racist dog whistle comments then.

HaddawayAndShite · 28/12/2023 14:07

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 13:55

You think employing foreign staff in a nursery during a childcare retention crisis and not liking that some people make racist comments about it is cultural supremacy? WTactualF

Yeah, WTF was my response too . Then decided to ignore
Cuckoo 😁

I wonder if some of these posters are already pissed on the leftover baileys… or live in OPs area. Astonishing.

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 14:08

That doesn’t mean every aspect of the culture should be accepted, where people have racist views these should be challenged and I also challenge the idea that racism is an integral part of any culture. You can celebrate culture through embracing the food, celebrations, festivals, language, dress, ceremony, tradition etc - you don’t have to respect or embrace racism, xenophobia, judgement and discrimination towards others. Not every person within rural cultures will hold these small minded views either so it’s ridiculous to suggest they are integral to it. It’s possible to celebrate a culture without respecting every part of it, especially those which are clearly harmful to society in a wider sense

Well said, this.

PolkaDotStripe · 28/12/2023 14:09

@Hygeelady What are ‘British Values’?

I think your nursery sounds great OP.

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