Does your child have a teacher to go back to next week?

[fuckityfuckityfuckfuck]

My reception child doesn't.
There are 12 unfilled primary teacher vacancies within a 10mi radius of us. Only 1 of those I could perhaps be reluctant to work in due to reputation. There are also another 16 vacancies with later start dates.

Primary has historically been oversubscribed. I know this has been an ongoing issue for a while in secondary maths/science but now it's seeping into primary which has always been more desirable, I don't see how parents can continue to ignore the issue.

Gillian Keegan has warned the independent advisory board to "consider school budgets" when recommending a pay rise for 24-25 so I would imagine there will be even more classes without teachers next year!

As its AIBU... its time parents started complaining to their MPs to protect state education.

I was a teacher and would never teach again, the hours are long 70 plus every week, SLT sending messages at all times I had one manager text me at 1am to tell me something was wrong with my planning for the next day (nothing was wrong with it) screamed at me the next morning in front of parents demanding to know why I didn't reply! Schools are a toxic cesspit if you are not a favourite of management, and as for academies nepotism runs rife and SLTs pay and benefits are ridiculous and well overpaid. The whole system needs looking at

I can’t remember the name of the poster but there was someone on here some weeks ago saying that new people were not joining the profession because existing teachers were moaning so much about the workload. So, it’s our own fault for not lying about how bad things are…

@itsmyp4rty @crumblingschools

I’ve seen CEO salaries on Companies House. It’s not just their salaries but also these “Head of Education” and other “specialist” roles that need scrutinising. They are all ex HMI Inspectors and literally call all the shots. Arriving in their very expensive cars and dressed in what I would describe as “power suits” telling already overworked and undervalued, committed teachers how terrible they are.

So many threads on Mumsnet about teaching have included people saying "if you don't like it then leave" and we have. I work in a school with good management and last term one teacher took early retirement and one left teaching altogether. This term another excellent and experienced teacher has also left education for a job with less pay but a much better work life balance. It's happening in many schools and I don't think things will get any better in the next ten years at least, too much has been lost. Of the eight friends who I qualified with I am the only one still teaching in state education, one other is but in the private sector.

I know I wouldn’t do it. I’m a volunteer leader in girlguiding and some parents behaviour is eye opening. I always have get out I’m a volunteer if I was a teacher I wouldn’t.
One of the other leaders is a TA in reception. She was bitten by a child in class! She said they have 5 none verbal children/developmentally under 12 months. How is that fair on the children or the staff.
The massive amounts of planning seems like a huge burden, surely things could be more standardised like in other countries.

The points about primary teaching mainly being women and women not being able to afford luxury of a ‘hobby job’ anymore are also true. The TA’s I know can only do it as they have a husband with a good job or are young and live at home subsidised by parents.

My theories:
-Curriculum changes from a skill based curriculum to facts based is becoming ingrained. This doesn’t translate to a state educated workforce with useful skills, confidence in independent learning or self direction. The narrow curriculum, things like phonics at the expense of soft skills, has had an impact. Social skills were formed in home corners, expectations that you could chose appropriate learning activities in infants and contribute to prep and clean up. People don’t realise the impact of moving away from pedagogy leading the curriculum and trusting qualified teachers. The younger generation is de-skilled and have been financially hurt and hurt in their ability to organise life.
-job expectations, with both parents chasing money on shifts or long hours they are simply less available to parent. And stressed when they are present. teens roam wild and young children are brought up by screens
-devaluation of pay in childcare/ education. It’s not attracting the right people anymore. they struggled to manage a room of kids
-reduction in respect for teachers/ education as a society
-school funding is hit. It’s harder to manage behaviour without the budget (people). Unmanaged behaviour has a knock on
-reducing services for those in crisis from midwives to social care. Kids brought up in DV or neglect have no chance. Some of them are now parenting with the same unmet needs in a cycle with no support availabile. Kids are entering schools having missed the developmental milestones aged 0-5, the years when learning is most important and when they are set up for life. Even those not in crisis lost sure start centres etc and struggled more
-reduction in early sen care. I remember my disabled sister having bi-weekly physio and input aged 0-4. The service doesn’t even exist now. She’d get a termly meeting where her parents were given exercises. Possibly when they were being forced to work. She’d not be so well functioning if born now.

summary: it’s long term, complex and the product of years of neglect on many many fronts

Interesting & concerning discussion. My DC are in primary and have supply teachers a lot of the time (a day or two at a time rather than long-term sick). Large proportion of SEN / behavioural issues in DC Yr 2 class. Interestingly, two close friends in 30s/40s have left well paid professions to train as teachers - one primary, one secondary. Both of their spouses are teachers and have been for many years, so presumably they're going in with their eyes open..

I left teaching during covid and am now in a job where I feel valued , am not expected to work outside of my alloted hours, can flex my hours so see my own children in assemblies , plays etc and there is opportunity to work from home. No way I would go back - my quality of life is much better outside of teaching but I do miss it and it makes me sad thay so many are leaving. I wouldn't recommend it as a profession to my own children and I do worry about the future of those in education.

It's a lot of things I think.

A lot of parents feel they are being criticised if we tell them about their child's poor behaviour in school. Some of that is guilt because they feel responsible; some of it is anger that they feel blamed; some are just so disillusioned by the education system that they feel we should get our house in order before complaining to them about theirs without really understanding that their child's class teacher has very little autonomy or control.

MH services (adults and CAHMS), early help services and SEND provision have been slashed so parents who are struggling and might have got support 15/20 years ago feel they are being criticised but not helped. You only have to read posts on this and other threads to see the frustration some parents (justifiably) feel. In many cases, we're not telling them anything they don't already know but they feel angry and frustrated that we're dumping the problem back at their feet.

The rise of parent groups chats on WhatsApp and the like mean that, rather than dealing with grievances privately, they have a forum to air their discontent and other parents are not a voice of reason but an echo chamber of discontent.

A rise in individualistic thinking and language - eg triggering, validating, personal identity etc which remove the responsibility from a collective and social one to an individualistic one where no one can be challenged.

A lot of the parents of younger (primary) children today are the children who grew up within the non-competitive zeitgeist of championing everyone and not comparing (eg sports days, not displaying targets on the wall, not sharing with parents where children were in relation to other children but focusing on the progress they had made) and simply aren't used to being told they're not always right.

I haven't explained that last one well but one of my friends is a GP who said 10 years ago that a lot of the late teens/early 20s patients he was seeing were there for MH/anxiety. He said that, in the majority of cases, there was a sense that these were kids who had grown up believing they were perfect/brilliant/beautiful/clever/right etc because parents had told them this to boost their self esteem. The result was young adults who had little to no resilience and found it difficult to function in a world where the view they had been given of themselves by their parents etc wasn't shared by wider society. Many of those people will be late 20s/early 30s now so the parents of primary school children.

Both parents are often out of the house working long hours; an increased reliance on childcare and an accompanying lack of understanding of child development. Not criticising parents for that - I did it - but I also recognised my children's needs and so largely managed to offset the impact. Some parents don't have the knowledge to do that.

Lower grandparent involvement due to women's retirement age increasing and grandparents working longer. More focus on grandparents enjoying themselves than spending time with the family. Eg fewer grandparents who babysit or play an active role in their grandchildrens' upbringings because they've done their time childbearing and now it's time for them. Again, not criticising that in any way, but I do think it goes some way to explaining. I spent a lot of time with my grandma, who would play with me and take me on days out, babysit and I had a great relationship with her and her friends. My children didn't have any of that with their own grandparents and their lives were definitely poorer and less rounded because of it.

People having second families/blending families which aren't always welcomed or managed well and the resulting impact of those. And even when they are managed well, there is often a child somewhere who feels sidelined and invisible.

Not all of what I've mentioned is problematic in and of itself, but the combination of many of these factors has contributed to the shift. I believe.

As well as a lot of what is cited here.

@SomethingBetterChange and @MirrorBack you both make great points. Thank you.

Why on earth would someone consider starting a career in teaching now?

Paid less than we were in 2010, higher workload, worse behaviour, micromanaging parents, universally hated as evidenced in national press and on sm. We were idle during covid, are to blame for any child not happy or reaching their potential, strike at whim. Even on mn in recent days - events need to be scheduled for the evening to fit in with working parents, the homework we set is adding stress to family life, we deny drinks unless water because we are cruel, we say no to unlimited toilet trips because we are cruel, we enforce school uniform because we are cruel.

The lack of funding for pupils with SEND is a huge issue at the moment. There are not enough special school places so mainstream classes are expected to cater for pupils with significant levels of SEN-not just ASD, ADHD, or specific learning difficulties but also medical needs. We have increasing numbers who aren’t toilet trained, are PEG-fed, blind, completely non-verbal or with SEMH needs and are extremely physical.

If a class teacher has 32 in their class, no LSA and 20% high need SEN, but is still expected to make sure every child is making progress all of the time, their planning is impeccable, their marking is up to date and following the policy, their subject/subjects are ready for a Deep Dive, their lessons are ready for a learning walk/observation at any moment, their displays are changed regularly, the parents are kept regularly informed on all incidents and emails answered, it’s hardly surprising so many are leaving

Something has to give and it needn’t be staff or wellbeing. So much of this pointless crap could be dropped and everyone could be happier, children included.

Recruitment and retention are beyond shocking at the moment.

I am a secondary Head of Science and need to recruit 2 teachers for next year. To be honest, I am dreading it because I know applicants will be few and far between, if we get any at all!

My previous school which is only a couple of miles from my current one are now 3 science teachers down and cannot recruit. They have had multiple adverts out, offered TLRs etc but no luck.

Another local school, very good reputation, recently Ofsted outstanding, cannot recruit a Head of Science🙄

Not just science either - pretty much every single subject is the same.

Workload is a huge factor - my current school is pretty good, for mainscale teachers and as a HoD, I do extra to keep the pressure off my team as much as possible. Some schools are shocking though and if you end up short staffed it's even worse (been there!).

Why do such a huge proportion of kids have significant additional needs these days? Has there been any conclusive research?
It can't all be increased awareness.

We're okay for next term but 2 core subjects are losing at least one teacher at Easter, just before GCSE revision starts gearing up.

They probably won't be the only ones.

My DD is a primary teacher, she did 8 years in a good state primary getting up to deputy head, and then left to work in an independent school as she was so fed up with the changes made by the academy running her school. She recently went out for a meal with 8 ex colleagues- every single one had left either to work in private schools or jobs outside of teaching.

Teaching, particularly the primary sector has traditionally attracted women. Now with so many jobs offering women the opportunity to work from home, and flexible working arrangements, teaching cannot compete. This year has seen the lowest recruitment levels recorded. Some posters love to blame the Government but the reality is that teaching is recognised as being incredibly demanding and not family friendly. The UK solves the nursing crisis by recruiting from overseas. It is harder to recruit teachers in the same way.
There has to be more flexibility in the working conditions. There has to be parity with other public sector jobs. If the Civil Service allows wfh and flexibility. Teaching has to offer more flexibility. Some academy chains allow SLT to wfh some days but it puts huge pressure on ordinary staff to monitor behaviour at break and lunchtime.
There has to be parity with other public sector jobs

When there is a thread about wfh so many posters think the right to wfh should be enshrined in law. They cannot see what that means for teacher recruitment

@Dixiechickonhols I'm an HLTA (although a qualified teacher with 20 years' experience) and my husband definitely does not have a good salary; he earns just over a little more than me. We have three kids in private rented as can't afford to buy. No government support so life is hard. Between us jointly we come out with less than £30k pa.
But this would still be the case if I was to return to teaching; still not able to buy. I have no intention of returning to teaching. Ever!!

I also cannot understand why this has happened re: parents. We have had in this country for generations a poor attitude to education. I don't see the 'I went to the University of Life' 'I didn't do anything at school and I'm OK' attitude in many other countries, if any. Most countries see education as a way out of poverty and as extremely important. Whereas in this country teachers are glorified babysitters. Devalued and doing a job that is of no use as educations is of little use. You can see the difference in attainment amongst immigrant communities who live in poverty and go to schools in poor areas. Children who are brought up in an environment where education and educators are abused and dismissed do not do as well.
That attitude also permeates into the professional world 'I cant get staff because they aren't taught properly'. No, you are responsible for training staff. You just can't be bothered to pay for staff training or invest in it. But this has been a problem for decades amongst parents and the public in general. Why has it suddenly become intolerable? Why have the chickens come home to roost on this only now?

I'm a primary teacher and I would echo this. I've been teaching 13 years and things are truly awful. I work at a pretty lovely school but we've just not meeting kids needs and it's making me so sad. I've been part time since having DS as I would never see him if I worked full time.

There has to be more flexibility in the working conditions. There has to be parity with other public sector jobs. If the Civil Service allows wfh and flexibility. Teaching has to offer more flexibility.

I agree but when flexibility in teaching is discussed it seems to just be about letting teachers go part time-not anything that’s actually flexible!

Some posters love to blame the Government

I do think the government have a lot of answer for. Over-full curriculum, forced academisation for schools who require improvement, refusal to reform Ofsted, refusal to discuss pay rises and now passing laws to ban teachers from striking.