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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are these red flags?

67 replies

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:22

I met a woman on an online dating website last month, we are both women.

She seems great fun, is a martial arts instructor, settled responsible career working with rehabilitating people, a nicely kept home, travels the world in a camper van with a cute dog, quite attractive, she seems like a very appealing package and just the kind of person I might have hoped to meet. (Not concerned about that being identifying, absolutely certain she nor her friends read Mumsnet)

I am of course more interested in her character than the above surface trappings.

As we have talked more regularly and at length, I’ve learned some things about her that I would like some objective feed back on…

She mentions somehow or some way almost everyday that she experienced love and was very loved by her exs, but that she never felt the same degree of love for them, and she wanted to experience a passionate powerful love.

When I asked her what love meant to her, she said to love each other to the same level, and to feel the same excitement about that person 20 years later as you did day one.

She is 51.

She said that first time she felt such a passionate love was this past summer, when she met a woman she said she couldn’t build a real connection with, that she was aloof and distant and it was clear they did not feel the same way about each other. She said this woman nearly broke her and has shattered her self confidence for the first time.

I asked her if she perhaps had come to associate pain and longing with passionate love, and that perhaps it was more of a “the one that got away” situation, and that allowed her to project things on this woman that may or may not be true. She agreed that was “undoubtedly” the case, and that she had learned so much about herself.

She said she believed that experience was karma and she learned a lot about herself. She said she felt what it must have been like for her exs who she was not as passionate about and who she left, while they still loved her… because she needed something “spicy” and dislikes the stale routine that sets in after a few years.

I said how did your exs respond the the imbalance of love… she said that she was attentive and kind, and that was enough for them… but that she knows she can give more and be more - she mentioned she could be more romantic, organise surprises, that sort of thing.

I have seen several flags in this and want to stop this in its tracks before it has begun, AIBU?

I know of course that I can end things at any time for any reason, and I don’t need permissions from anyone… my only doubt is I have been very hurt a few times now, and I’m wondering if I am judging hastily before I’ve even really got to know someone, and she may have qualities I don’t know about yet… also, what people say, and who they are is often very different. I haven’t had much opportunity to see her behaviour to judge her by that instead.

It may be that she has these ideas because she has been born and raised in France, and that culture is certainly very different.

Just needing some reassurance and feedback, thank you Vipers!

OP posts:
User69371527 · 27/12/2023 09:24

On the face of it no I don’t think so.
I think like many people in her 40s and 50s she knows what she wants and doesn’t want to settle for less. I guess it will just depend if you feel that passionate connection with each other or not.

PlantsFallLikeDominoes · 27/12/2023 09:29

It sounds like she's in love with the idea of love rather than the reality and the reality of relationships will never match up to the idea. I have also only loved one person to a fierce extent and ended up in relationships before where they liked me more. But the fierce extent marriage was a trauma bond and after experiencing that I'm happy for solid feet on the floor relationships now.

ChristmasFluff · 27/12/2023 09:34

Relationships evolve and change over time as they deepen.

She is saying she doesn't want that, and wants the excitement of the 'new' to persist over decades. That can only happen where there is uncertainty and rollercoaster ups and downs that endlessly take away the 'old' and re-present it as 'new' time and again - she is essentially looking for someone who is emotionally unavailable or abusive.

It's often said that a long-term relationhsip is like a comfy pair of slippers - she's asking you to wear high-heels forever.

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:36

PlantsFallLikeDominoes · 27/12/2023 09:29

It sounds like she's in love with the idea of love rather than the reality and the reality of relationships will never match up to the idea. I have also only loved one person to a fierce extent and ended up in relationships before where they liked me more. But the fierce extent marriage was a trauma bond and after experiencing that I'm happy for solid feet on the floor relationships now.

Exactly. She is saying she went through something traumatic, but she wants to experience that again, with it being equal feelings for each other this time.

I asked her if she thought it might be possible to love deeply without pain being involved, that a loving relationship could bring tranquility and satisfaction, instead of pain and longing. She said she liked a bit of “spice” to be in there, it seemed to me she was suggesting too much tranquility might not be favourable.

Trauma bonding was exactly the thought that came into my head too, when she mentioned these things.

I don’t know a great deal about the way she was raised, but it doesn’t sound ideal, apparently she is no contact with her mum and sister, and only sees her father rarely.

I’m thinking there may be historical attachment issues.

OP posts:
AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:38

ChristmasFluff · 27/12/2023 09:34

Relationships evolve and change over time as they deepen.

She is saying she doesn't want that, and wants the excitement of the 'new' to persist over decades. That can only happen where there is uncertainty and rollercoaster ups and downs that endlessly take away the 'old' and re-present it as 'new' time and again - she is essentially looking for someone who is emotionally unavailable or abusive.

It's often said that a long-term relationhsip is like a comfy pair of slippers - she's asking you to wear high-heels forever.

You have perfectly summarised exactly how I read it, and why I am thinking of stepping back before it has even begun.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 27/12/2023 09:39

She does sound rather self absorbed.

cosmicfig · 27/12/2023 09:42

“She said she felt what it must have been like for her exs who she was not as passionate about and who she left, while they still loved her… because she needed something “spicy” and dislikes the stale routine that sets in after a few years.”

I think this part is a bit of a red flag if you are looking for a long term steady partner

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:43

KimberleyClark · 27/12/2023 09:39

She does sound rather self absorbed.

She does have a way of swaggering and flicking her hair that made me think she does see herself as superior in some ways.

Yet I think there is a deep insecurity demonstrated by her having fallen in love with the woman who treated her the most coldly cruelly in her life and then ghosted her. That is what she claims, it might have just been someone similar to me who saw these flags, initially distanced herself, then finally bailed.

OP posts:
PlantsFallLikeDominoes · 27/12/2023 09:47

I like the comfy slipper analogy.

It sounds like she needs drama. Her brain doesn't understand how being content doesn't equal bored.

She'd probably be quite fun to have a fling with if you're that way inclined OP but she's not the one for a real relationship.

Aquamarine1029 · 27/12/2023 09:49

I think she's being crystal clear that she won't be around for long. She's wanting you to manage your expectations.

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:51

cosmicfig · 27/12/2023 09:42

“She said she felt what it must have been like for her exs who she was not as passionate about and who she left, while they still loved her… because she needed something “spicy” and dislikes the stale routine that sets in after a few years.”

I think this part is a bit of a red flag if you are looking for a long term steady partner

Right.

The part I find more unsettling is the apparently not having loved deeply so far… at the age of 51, not for lack of relationships apparently, she said she has rarely been single for any length of time.

It seems to me there was a settling for those who loved her more than she loved them, perhaps for an easy life… hopefully she did not exploit their love. It seems she was aware she was short changing them, I doubt they were aware, since she says they were content with what she gave.

OP posts:
Wintery · 27/12/2023 09:54

I don't like the sound of her and wouldn't be interested - she sounds very self-involved. It all about what she learned about herself. What she wants from a relationship. Not a red flag as such though, but if you want to proceed, i would proceed with caution. It sounds to me like she's priming you- saying that you will have to do the work to excite her.
What does she actually BRING to a relationship. What has she got to offer?

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 09:57

Aquamarine1029 · 27/12/2023 09:49

I think she's being crystal clear that she won't be around for long. She's wanting you to manage your expectations.

She kept emphasising as we spoke she wants to fall so deeply in LOVE.

I thought it was rather a direct invitation for me to believe I may really be loved by her, if I play my cards right and am exciting and non routine and play push and pull games with her.

This sounds very emotionally immature to me and is not what I want for myself at all.

I’m not ready for a fling, unfortunately. I would rather something more meaningful.

OP posts:
Santaisscouringindeedfornewjob · 27/12/2023 10:02

Sounds like she reads Mills and Boon to me.... Don't get involved op. Will she have time to have any fun after all the analysing of your days together?

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 10:04

Wintery · 27/12/2023 09:54

I don't like the sound of her and wouldn't be interested - she sounds very self-involved. It all about what she learned about herself. What she wants from a relationship. Not a red flag as such though, but if you want to proceed, i would proceed with caution. It sounds to me like she's priming you- saying that you will have to do the work to excite her.
What does she actually BRING to a relationship. What has she got to offer?

Very interesting you should say that, she has said several times about making an effort and that the English don’t make much of an effort.

There’s certainly no lack of an ego!

I wondered how you can say you were loved so deeply, if you say your own regard was more tepid… it seems she may have kept them busy setting them targets and telling them they’re not making an effort!

…I made the disturbing connection that this one is straight out of the abuser manual. Having watched the Tate documentary on the BBC, this is appropriate how he insured the women couldn’t or wouldn’t leave, by keeping them very busy with work looking after him, and criticising their work so they were on a constant treadmill to please - and apparently this is the aspect that keeps someone locked in!
Some abusers just know this instinctively.

It struck me as odd the very first time she said anything about not enough effort! I had a little thought in the back of my mind thinking, she thinks very highly of herself!

She showed me photos of her exs, I didn’t ask for them, it was pictures she had shared with me of her holidays. The two women I saw did seem considerably younger, at least 10 years or more. So it would have been short work to manage the expectations of someone less experienced and more naive.

In the past, I was usually really good at reading people, but having taken a few knocks lately, ,y decision making sometimes hasn’t been at its best, even outside of romantic life.

OP posts:
OceanicBoundlessness · 27/12/2023 10:04

I don't know how you could let your guard down with someone who has told you all this.
It doesn't seem like a good recipe for an equal, loving, trusting relationship and I would be worried that there might be a lot of drama and push/pull situations created.
I think I would step away.

Stupidliefromfriend · 27/12/2023 10:06

She sounds immature and boring to me.

justhadenoughofitall · 27/12/2023 10:15

I suspect if you walk away then she will declare deep love but if you stay she will be bored and end it.

Either way you get a crap experience. For that reason alone I'd end it.

But be prepared for love bombing if you do.

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 10:26

justhadenoughofitall · 27/12/2023 10:15

I suspect if you walk away then she will declare deep love but if you stay she will be bored and end it.

Either way you get a crap experience. For that reason alone I'd end it.

But be prepared for love bombing if you do.

My thoughts, too.

I’m only surprised that she is so open. Either she is lacks self awareness, or it’s a quick way to sieve in the naive without wasting too much time with those who will never play these kinds of games.

I’m not sure which it is.

OP posts:
financialcareerstuff · 27/12/2023 10:31

I have to say I don't think it's very nice of you discussing all this online. You've included a lot of irrelevant but seemingly identifiable detail, then shared lots of aspects of her deep, intimate life which she has shared with you in a very open, trusting way, in the hope of forming a relationship.

It doesn't really matter if she reads Mumsnet (and you can't possibly know for sure none of her friends do). It just doesn't feel respectful to me. If I was her, I'd feel utterly humiliated and violated.

Why did you have to include so much detail?

RandomButtons · 27/12/2023 10:42

Sounds like she’s been watching too many crap romance movies and thinks the Hollywood version of love is what she aspires to.

Personally I’d run a mile if you’re looking for a long term life partner. She clearly wants the next flame to burn bright, not a relationship of deep love and trust that matures over the years and works through all the bumps of life together.

What are you looking for?

RandomButtons · 27/12/2023 10:44

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 10:26

My thoughts, too.

I’m only surprised that she is so open. Either she is lacks self awareness, or it’s a quick way to sieve in the naive without wasting too much time with those who will never play these kinds of games.

I’m not sure which it is.

Quite clearly the latter.

AChristmasFlag · 27/12/2023 10:47

financialcareerstuff · 27/12/2023 10:31

I have to say I don't think it's very nice of you discussing all this online. You've included a lot of irrelevant but seemingly identifiable detail, then shared lots of aspects of her deep, intimate life which she has shared with you in a very open, trusting way, in the hope of forming a relationship.

It doesn't really matter if she reads Mumsnet (and you can't possibly know for sure none of her friends do). It just doesn't feel respectful to me. If I was her, I'd feel utterly humiliated and violated.

Why did you have to include so much detail?

Did you see something in my posts you took personally?
If we all stopped posting for fear of being “disrespectful” and “unkind” to someone we’re seeing / in a relationship with, how would anyone get any support here? Any query or complaint or suffering could all be termed as “disrespectful” or “unkind”?

If intimate details of a relationship were not to be shared on Mumsnet, then a large percentage of posts would disappear. How can we get help and feedback if we don’t describe what’s going on?

As to the description of her, it was so that I didn’t get the replies I see so often of what did you see in this person, that was me trying to mention the appealing person she appears to me…

And yes I can know for sure that she nor her friends read this, because neither she or her friends speak English. And if I do give further details than that, that really would be identifying.

OP posts:
financialcareerstuff · 27/12/2023 10:52

You have given a ton of totally irrelevant and identifiable details.

If you read Mumsnet posts they don't do this, precisely because it is disrespectful and possibly identifying.

It is perfectly possible to write in a way that shares the issue you want thoughts on but doesn't lay the actual person out in detail.

You've chosen not to do that and have zero self reflection about it, even when it is pointed out. Ok. Nothing more I can do.

PlantsFallLikeDominoes · 27/12/2023 10:54

I really doubt she's thought far ahead enough to say things to sieve or trap new women.

She appears to me to be on of those free spirit 'aren't I so non conformist' 'I'm so amazing as I've done so much navel gazing' type!

You can have a van and enjoy the outdoors without it being a personality trait! You can want romance and passion without needing hurt feelings to create that illusion. You can be a grown up and still have curiosity and fun.