Junior Drs forced to take off shoes

[ChedderGorgeous]

AIBU to suggest that sh*t like this will make the Junior Doctor's strikes last longer

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/exclusive/article-12897121/Bullying-probe-launched-against-consultant-told-slacking-doctors-work-without-shoes-punishment-slow-discharge-elderly-patients-hospital.html

Okay, I agree that the consultant was a dick but WHY did they willingly hand their shoes over?

If someone asked for my shoes I’d say no.

It's easy to say that but the dynamics of being a rotating JD, a toxic working environment with what is evidently a bully of a senior I think means in the moment its understandable.

Absolutelty agree with this. Perhaps terrified of his failing them as an F1?

I’d have told him where I’d be ‘storing’ my shoes if he persisted in this and that I’d be seeing him and the hospital at an employment tribunal. But that’s with age and experience.

A younger, less job-secure, person might feel they had no choice.

There is still very much a hierarchy in medicine. Consultants have a final say in everything you do & if you want to progress they can make it very difficult for you if they don't like you. It can affect your whole career & medics often have connections throughout the UK and further afield so you definitely don't want to be singled out. There is a huge amount of pressure in medicine & it can be a thankless task when you're a junior (which you are for a long time) it's not as easy as just saying no or else these situations wouldn't still be happening.

These were FY1s, so brand new doctors. Started in August, and may never have worked before.

It’s being treated as a bullying complaint, because they were bullied into removing their shoes. If you wouldn’t be susceptible to being bullied, good for you, but the most junior members of the team are vulnerable to bullying that more senior members wouldn’t be.

I’m sure a senior reg would have told him to go fuck himself, but an FY1 wouldn’t usually be brave enough. They clearly knew it was wrong and complained immediately to the next consultant who appeared on the ward, who put a stop to it.

One of the things that struck me is that the doctors were being asked to see sick patients and give family updates but couldn't because they were doing paperwork .

@Luise2 that's junior doctor life.

You have a massive list of jobs to do, including sitting at the computer doing discharge summaries so patients can go home with the correct medications and info about what has happened them, and then you get constantly interrupted:
The man in bed 8 has a low BP
The woman in bed 4 has chest pain
The relatives of bed 25 have just turned up and want an update
The relatives of bed 26 saw you and now want an update to
And on and on and on

The whole thing is juggling the paperwork which is also an essential part of patient care, with all the other demands

It’s bullying pure and simple. And reflective of a toxic, hierarchal work culture that is common place in many departments. I’m sure the F1s were terrified that the consultant would be able have sway over passing the rotation (and that they handed over the shoes probably demonstrates that bullying was fairly common in the workplace before this incident).

The fact you have papers running articles supporting the consultants actions and that the ward staff went along with it tells you everything about how bad conditions have got for junior doctors and why so many of us have had enough and are leaving the profession.

Plus I’m sure the doctors hadn’t neglected the discharge lessons because they were sat around doing nothing. They were no doubt having to prioritise other clinical jobs etc. Perhaps the consultant could have sat done and completed the paperwork himself rather than choosing to humiliate his most junior members of staff?

The most striking thing in my opinion is how the junior doctors went along with it and the nurses around them including the senior sister did not challenge this. It suggests to me that this consultant is probably a known bully that people are intimidated by and/or that there is a widespread culture of harassment, bullying, fear, etc.

It’s not as simple as saying “no” - those of us who have worked for him are well aware of his personality and not to cross him. He is a very good physician but can be a difficult person. I am, however, surprised that the ward sister took their shoes - they are very senior nurses who most Consutlants wouldn’t think of crossing. The juniors are constantly being interrupted by nurses and others to do other things when they are trying to do paperwork in the office. Thankfully the trust didn’t deny or play it down and the matter is being handled.

Consultants are god when you are a junior doctor. Of course they took off their shoes.

He is obviously a bully, hopefully he will be dealt with. Clearly he isn't liked by ward staff. He should have rolled up sleeves and helped. The best example of all.

Likelihood is that this doctor is well known for stuff like this and the FY1s had even experienced it as medical students.

I've certainly met FY1s capable of telling you to get stuffed but that's outside London in jobs which would have no influence on their careers.

Some city hospitals still have a culture totally based on bullying those lower down the ladder.