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Original poster

What historical event do you think would have changed history if it had turned out differently?

370 replies

MaryQueenofKnots · 22/12/2023 02:49

Here's mine:
What if Edward VI had lived?
What if JFK hadn't been shot?
What if Edward VIII hadn't abdicated?

OP posts:
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7
KylieJennersMakeUpSponge · 22/12/2023 20:02

MaryQueenofKnots · 22/12/2023 03:08

@MariaLuna yes a lot of the aristocracy did, look at the Mitford sisters. It's awful that there isn't more criticism of the antisemitic views held by historical figures, such as TS Elliot and Nancy Mitford.

Not to mention Roald Dahl. I can’t believe someone so openly anti-Semitic is so celebrated

KylieJennersMakeUpSponge · 22/12/2023 20:20

MrsRachelDanvers · 22/12/2023 09:39

If Edward 4 hadn’t died so suddenly aged 40. No princes in tower, no Tudors-his son would’ve succeeded him and Richard 3 would’ve been a footnote rather than one of our great villains. Also, if Harold had won Battle of Hastings-women had more rights in Saxon society, unlike the feudal Normans. No harrying if the North which left thousands dead through famine. Or if Henry 1’s so. Hadn’t drowned in the White Ship-no civil war which devastated the country.

I’m pretty sure Blackadder series 1 is an alternative universe of this exact thing and Blackadder was on of the Princes on the tower who survived and was an absolute twat 😂

KylieJennersMakeUpSponge · 22/12/2023 20:22

LoobyDop · 22/12/2023 09:52

Something I’ve never understood about Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon’s failure to produce a male heir- why didn’t they just cheat? It wouldn’t have been that difficult to pretend that one of her miscarriages never happened, find some unfortunate pregnant waif, and keep her confined with Catherine until the baby was born.

Because back then Royals believed that them and their descendants were decreed by God. This very belief is what ensured their survival for a long time.

Catsmere · 22/12/2023 20:24

If Richard III had won at Bosworth. No Tudors, possibly no English Reformation, and if he'd remarried and fathered a son, a continuing Plantaganet dynasty.

And no bloody now-is-the-winter-of-our-discontent caricatures of the man!

KylieJennersMakeUpSponge · 22/12/2023 20:25

Pemba · 22/12/2023 10:56

But he was set on marrying Wallis Simpson, which was the main trigger for him abdicating?

Weren't they both around 40 at the time they married and I'm sure that I read that they were both thought to be infertile (him as a result of having mumps as a teenager or something? - that can happen with males).

So he was unlikely to have produced heirs anyway. A very strange man, better that he didn't remain King. A bit rubbish for the young Elizabeth though, having to take over at age 25 when her dad died. In the 1970s after her uncle died would probably have been better for her and her family life.

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He’s definitely not infertile he had an illegitimate son

Many people - myself included - believe that Wallis has actually horrified by the abdication and didn’t want him to step down. But it wasn’t for the love of her but the fact he was discovered as a Nazi sympathiser and had a target on his back

Winterknights · 22/12/2023 20:26

By definition, all of them, obviously.

flowerchild2000 · 22/12/2023 20:50

Angrycat2768 · 22/12/2023 18:57

But you can't say that the indigenous peoples of America or Australia etc woukd not have progressed in the same way as Europeans have and they would have continued to be nomadic people living off the land. Without the marginalisation and discrimination of European colonisers they have just as much capacity to be viracipus developers and consumers as Europeans. Much European wealth was taken from Africa, the Americas and India. Those countries would have been hugely wealthy without it. To say they would not have done what Europeans did and had their own industrial revolutions, built their own machines, exploited their own natural resources ( as Brazil, India, China etc are doing now) is a bit silly, and mildly racist, as if only European brains were clever enough to invent machinery to simplify farming, built industrial machines etc. They would just be the ones on top and people in Europe would have been the poor. I say ' they', I would not have been born here without colonisation of India by Britain and Portugal.

Edited
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Yeah IDC, my best friends are Hopi and if I could spare them the genocide of their people I would. Stop making excuses.

AngelaRippingMyLegIntheAir · 22/12/2023 20:58

If God hadn't got bored one day and decided to create the heaven and the earth....

Angrycat2768 · 22/12/2023 21:05

It's not making excuses to say that other civilisations, if they had not been wiped out by Europeans would have been as advanced or more, than Europeans. You are being patronising to non Europeans. Brown people are not a hive mind, all innocently snd happily living off the land forever, not curious about progress, not wanting to learn or shake up their world. Just as there are in the European population. There would have been a small proportion of people who would have turned that world upside down. There are people who would have been happy living a nomadic, agrarian hunter gatherer lifestyle and those who would have been dissatisfied with that and wanted more. There is no reason why they woukd not have industrialised in the same way.

Barbadossunset · 22/12/2023 21:07

He’s definitely not infertile he had an illegitimate son

What’s his name and what happened to him?

Shade17 · 22/12/2023 21:14

Sauerkrautsandwich · 22/12/2023 04:38

My dad always used to say things would be completely different if Franz Ferdinand had normal car with roof and windows, not open one in Sarajevo. Can't disagree

You think they wouldn’t have made “Take me out”? Shame, it’s a catchy tune.

Catsmere · 22/12/2023 21:15

The idea of Edward VIII marrying for duty is laughable, given the man's history, and his determination to marry Wallis Simpson. His own father said he hoped he wouldn't, and that "nothing will come between Bertie and Lillibet and the throne". George V knew David was lousy king material.

Janinejones · 22/12/2023 21:21

@Catsmere , Battle of Bosworth: Was it the Stanley or the Nevilles army that was waiting to see who was going to win before joining in?
Had they have supported Richard, as they had agreed, the outcome cold well have been different.

Romeiswheretheheartis · 22/12/2023 21:36

If David Miliband had become Labour leader instead of Ed.

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · 22/12/2023 21:37

Think it was Stanley, wasn’t he Henry Tudor’s stepfather?

Brilliant thread thank you!

Catsmere · 22/12/2023 21:38

@Janinejones Stanley and Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland. Stanley eventually charged on behalf of his stepson Tudor, and Northumberland did nothing.

I read a novel (very Mary Sue) where Richard inadvertently travels in time, spends just long enough in the 21st century to find out what happened at the (for him) upcoming battle, then goes back and wins ... and of course the main character, who's a modern woman, wakes up to find she lives in a Catholic England with a Plantaganet monarch. 😄

greengreengrass25 · 22/12/2023 21:38

Janinejones · 22/12/2023 21:21

@Catsmere , Battle of Bosworth: Was it the Stanley or the Nevilles army that was waiting to see who was going to win before joining in?
Had they have supported Richard, as they had agreed, the outcome cold well have been different.

Yes the Stanley army called the shots I think

Original poster
MaryQueenofKnots · 22/12/2023 21:39

@Angrycat2768 completely agree. The idea that native Americans, aborigines, First Nations etc are all peaceful, non industrious, hunter gatherers is as offensive as the beliefs that the colonisers had, namely that they were all savages. The Amazonian tribes have been burning great swathes of the Rainforest since time immemorial. It's the reason why the Amazon looks the way it does today. The mayans and incans made similar impacts on other parts of the continent. They had infrastructure, hierarchy, urbanisation the same as we did. This does not excuse what the colonisers did, nor does it mean that the west did not significantly change the course of their history. It's like comparing West Africans before and after the slave trade, when you change the course of history so significantly for a particular region of the world, there's really no way of knowing whether they would have carried on one trajectory or another. Indigenous Latin Americans are now labelled as lazy by the more European centric media in their countries, but how would the Spanish act today if their lands were invaded, their population decimated and their infrastructure, culture, religion and industries were destroyed?

OP posts:
Original poster
MaryQueenofKnots · 22/12/2023 21:40

@Romeiswheretheheartis I think about this daily. That may have been related to the dream I had about David Milliband once Blush

OP posts:
Abracadabra12345 · 22/12/2023 21:52

ALittleTeawithmilk · 22/12/2023 05:43

If governments world wide had listened to scientists ( just over 30 years ago ) warning about man made climate change and acted on the warnings.

I was coming to say that. More than 30 years ago though. Imagine if it had been taken seriously and the world acted

artyjools · 22/12/2023 22:07

Posters have already mentioned events surrounding Henry VIII. If he had not felt the need to divorce Catherine of Aragon and marry Anne Boleyn, the UK would never have achieved the importance in world history that it achieved. Breaking away from the Catholic Church enabled scientists to thrive, whilst similar men in catholic areas were burned at the stake for heresy. And, of course, there would have been no Elizabeth I. The importance of this woman in UK and world history cannot be overestimated.

ALittleTeawithmilk · 22/12/2023 22:29

Abracadabra12345 · 22/12/2023 21:52

I was coming to say that. More than 30 years ago though. Imagine if it had been taken seriously and the world acted

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Yes you are right! They were warning us earlier. (I’ve lost track of the decades.)

Figmentofmyimagination · 22/12/2023 22:37

It was disease that did for the indigenous people more than war. They had no immunity to common diseases and they died in droves. So peaceful settlers would have been equally fatal.

WavingCatsandDogs · 22/12/2023 22:37

@Firefly If Edward VII hadn't abdicated it would be because he wanted to do his duty. Part of that duty was to produce an heir and a spare. He would probably have married somebody suitable to ensure the succession. I magine he would have liked to have kept Wallis on the side, the way these Royals do.

He didn't have kids but that was becuase he married Wallis and that was the life he wanted, not one of duty.

ladygindiva · 22/12/2023 22:44

TooBigForMyBoots · 22/12/2023 03:04

Things would be different if Catherine of Aragon had had a son.

Oooh that's a good one. Huge ramifications.