To not know how to manage this?

[amoobaa]

This is long and complicated, my apologies.

I'm posting here for traffic, in desperation, because I believe in the hivemind of Mumsnet.

We are stuck in a flat (in England) that is unsellable due to the cladding crisis.

My spouse bought the flat in 2011, via a shared ownership scheme (we met after that and married in 2021). We own 40% with a mortgage and pay rent to the housing association for 60%.)

The housing association has done all the applications for government grants to do the remediation work (to make everything safe and saleable again). We are eligible and that should all go through fine, but nobody knows when. It's been a few years now and we need to move for jobs, schools for kids etc.

The housing association have granted special permission for us to let the flat (as has the bank/ our mortgage lender). This is all fine. We won't make a profit, it will just cover the mortgage/ upkeep of the flat and allow us to move out and purchase another property in the area we want to live.

We will finally be able to move on with our lives (we have a growing family and it's a small flat. It was great when we were younger but it's not ideal for young kids- we saw a stabbing take place just below our balcony at 8pm the other night) and the air pollution isn't good for little lungs. etc etc.

This is my concern: What if we do all the above, but in a few years time (when they finally do the remediation work) Someone from somewhere tells us we are no longer eligible to access the government funding/ grant because it's a second home and we have sublet it?

My spouse vaguely remembers the housing association had to complete paperwork to say that none of the residents had second homes... (How could we?! You can't be eligible for help via a shared ownership scheme if you are so well off that you already have another residence and/ or could purchase it as an investment opportunity!?). Also, at this time nobody was allowed to sublet under the leasehold terms.

The only reason we are allowed to let now, is because it's classed as extenuating circumstances- without this option we would literally be trapped and unable to move on with our lives.

This was never meant to be a forever home. We have a family now and with our combined savings (albeit a MUCH smaller deposit and our choices are very limited...) we are able to move. Hopefully when we eventually sell the flat, we will be able to improve things in our new place/ area.

I spoke to a solicitor this evening via an organisation set up to support people in our situation (free 15 minutes of advise) and she said that there is nobody who can give any assurance because the policies are changing all the time and what stands today might not be the same in a few years time.

She said that 'Homes England' regulate shared ownership housing- so I should ask them.

She also said I should write to the 'Building safety fund' team, to ask them. And they are regulated by the 'Department for levelling up, housing and communities'. So I should write to them too and ask them.

But she seemed to think nobody would know or care or give any guarantees.

Now I'm terrified as we have had an offer accepted and will likely have moved and let out the flat as planned within the next few months.

We don't want to own a second property and we never planned to let it out. If we could sell it and buy a new home we would. We are buying a 'second home' because it's our only way out.

We will be penalised all the way... extortionate stamp duty etc.

If we manage to make it work, it will all be worth it. But not if we end up with a life shattering debt in a few years, when they do the remediation work on the flat.

I'd love to know if anyone else has been in this position?

Or if anyone has any idea what I should do to ensure we don't end up with a MASSIVE building works bill that we can't afford, when the remediation work is complete, because despite the circumstances and the permissions given to sublet our flat and purchase a second home, it somehow stops us being eligible for the government grant?

Just to add, I've no idea if having a second home or subletting WILL block us from accessing government funding (I'm just worried that it might) and nobody is giving us any answers when I ask. I've asked everyone I can contact at the housing association but nobody knows.

Grateful for any insights. So far, we've written to MPs, harassed the housing association, got all the permissions needed to sublet. We know about 'end my cladding scandal' and we've read everything we can fin on the government website. Still very confused.

You could rent another property until the remediation work was done?

We could but then we would be paying rent rather than paying off a mortgage and we have no idea if the remediation work will take 2 years or 10 years.

Where we are planning to move, we probably wouldn’t be able to afford the rent. The place we’re buying is quite unique and an opportunity to live close to family and ticks a lot of boxes that we can’t find elsewhere. Most places would want a years rent upfront too. 😓my friend just paid a whole years rent upfront…

Don’t ask the building safety fund team. When we were applying for cladding funding we had to explain what vat was on building materials. They are clueless.

Whatever happens you’ll be in a better position than most. Owning two properties gives you flexibility with moving.

There's no point worrying re grants, you can't do anything so it's useless to spend time on it.

Is the flat in. It's your names? If it's just in your DH's name, buy the new property in your name only.

Is there any kind of insurance in existence to cover something like this? I realise it would be pretty specific but you cannot be the only people in this situation needing some sort of reassurance. What a nightmare.

Not if the cost of remedial work won't be grant funded due to them having a second house they won't

It's the very crux of the question she is asking.

Do you have any kind of idea of what the works will cost?

I'd go to your MP and ask them to put the question to the DLHC. Ask for a statement that in this specific set of circumstances, you will not be regarded as having a second home.

Then look for insurance against that eventuality.

@BitOutOfPractice I couldn’t agree more, I’m so sorry you’ve been through similar… I emailed them and got an automated response saying that the email is permanently closed and nobody will be monitoring it! So unhelpful…

@Hipnotised keeping our fingers crossed it works out that way. I’m not usually a gambler and never in such high risk situations… but this has been forced upon us.

I won’t spend too energy or time on what I can’t control… but I want to be sure of the facts so I can’t distinguish what exactly I can influence and what I will never be able to change.

I have to try. There’s a lot to lose.

Surely it doesn’t matter if the policy changes in the future?!

It matters what the policy was at the time you moved - currently there is nothing to state that you won’t be eligible and therefore how could they have a leg to stand on legally?

If it doesn’t exist currently then I think it’s fine - not sure why the solicitor thought you’d be vulnerable to changes in policy going forward when you made a decision based on the fact there is no policy!!!

How many £££££ would you have to pay for the cladding out of interest?

Can the HA shed any light on it ? They own a bigger share than you do and presumably own multiple properties. Is it just on your share that you get the grant or do they get it paid for too on their share?

@OrderOfTheKookaburra yes, my name is not on the current flat or any of the paperwork/ mortgage for it etc…

Buying the new place in my name only would be perfect… it would mean no issues with a having a ‘second home’ so no excessive stamp duty AND because I’m a first time buyer there would actually be no stamp duty at all. It would also mean no worries about whether having a ‘second home’ would affect our right to access funding.

However, my salary alone won’t be enough to get the mortgage we need. In fact, despite having a salary of just over £50k pro rata, HSBC recently congratulated me on being eligible for an £11k mortgage… which isn’t going to get us anywhere near what we need to move.

The problem is my salary, I earn less than half my spouse’s wages and on top of that I went part time after mat leave. My take home is about £1,900 a month. But even if I hadn’t gone back three days a week only, I still wouldn’t make anywhere near enough for the mortgage we’re looking at.

I appreciate the part time work is an issue of my own making though. I’ll return to full time soon.

The place is £365K and we have a £200k deposit (my wonderful Mum is helping with this as she has downsized following the death of my Dad) so we only need a £165k mortgage.

God I wish my Dad was here. He’d be great at navigating it all and making it seem like everything will be ok in the end… and if it wasn’t ok, he’d say ‘it’s not the end’.

On the one hand I think, but it bloody well is isn’t it, Dad! The end well and truly came when you died.

and on the other hand, I think… this is just the beginning. I’m so lucky to have had you as my Dad. Even though you’re gone, I can still ensure that everything that mattered to you remains alive in me, All your values, warmth and diplomacy. And now I’m able to navigate this without you, because of you. Because of everything you gave me. All that love and care, humour and compassion, patience and kindness. It’s all still with me. More alive that ever.

@HyperPromiscuousChildlessEtcEtc that’s a really good idea. I’ll look into that. I’ve no idea if it exists and I imagine it’d be quite expensive but I’ll check. In fact our mortgage broker does insurance too so I’ll start there. Thank you 😊

I wonder if there is a way you could buy the second home and place it in a revocable trust in the children's names until the issues with the flat are sorted out, and so you remain eligible for the remedial works. Worth speaking to a professional to discuss the best way to buy the new property.

@AlisonDonut yes that’s my concern exactly! Keeping me awake at half past midnight as usual… 😬

I would be exactly the same OP, I feel for you. I think the MP suggestion is great, and the insurance. I wonder if in future you could sell your second home (to your mum), so you only own one property- get the flat cladding done, sell the flat, and then buy your home back from your mum. Hell of a faff though. Your dad sounds amazing and I still have conversations in my mind with lots of deceased friends and family, they are still with you in many ways. Good luck.

@Hearmenow23 they won’t say, it could be manageable and covered by the government fund regardless or it could be huge and the bill passed directly to us. It could be thousands and thousands. They are being very cagey about the information.

We don’t actually have cladding on our building BUT during inspections they found that there is internal insulation material that is not compliant with the new regulations (that came into force in response to the Grendel tragedy). So it’s not leave now despite being legal at the time of the build. He se the arguments about who is responsible for paying for the remedial work. Builders say they followed the law at the time- which is true.

As a tenant I think it doesn’t matter whether it was legal or not, it was always unsafe, it’s just as flammable now as it was back then… so whose fault is it that the stuff was ever deemed safe in the first place? I believe the powers that be who changed the regulations are in government.

And whilst investigating that, they discovered that the builders ‘forgot to put in fire breaks’… madness… how does something so risky and life threatening like that happen!? And then nobody takes responsibility and years later it’s still not fixed.

@MintJulia thank you, yes, I will- I wrote an email today after seeing your message. Just need to keep sending emails until I find the right person, then chase relentlessly.

@Quitelikeit yes I think I need to talk to another solicitor! Just so expensive…

that’s the whole problem though really- that policy keeps changing.

That’s what started the financial disaster for leaseholders- people being sold ‘safe’ homes, only to be told later down the line that they are so dangerous that they are unsaleable.

I'm sorry, I had a relative caught as you are they had 2 babies in a one-bedroom studio flat. Luckily they managed to move to his parents and were allowed to rent the flat until luckily the block was surveyed and passed after a couple of years (passed, but needed some minor fairly cheap works).

I would say it's very unlikely you will get any guarantees (though I personally think it very likely you'll be covered).

However between you you have the earning potential of over £150k, a massive deposit courtesy of your DPs plus the equity in the flat. Honestly if it's going to make your lives so much better then just do it, you have the financial resilience to take a few knocks and you sound fairly young so plenty of earning years to recover.
Life's short, gotta grab it by the balls sometimes!

@Quitelikeit it’s so hard to tell. some people end up paying nothing (get grants) but some people in similar situations have lost everything because of it- bills in excess of £200k

i just googled abs found this statement from a housing association (not mine), but it’s similar to what ours have verbally said in the past:

“Why won’t you let me see certain documents? Surely I’m entitled to know about my building?

We want to be as open and transparent as we can be with you. We understand why it might be frustrating not being able to see every document. However, one of the reasons we’re unable to share certain, sensitive, documents at this stage is they could form part of a legal case for recovering costs from others.
If we disclose this information the chances of a successful claim may be lost or significantly damaged.
These reports are also technical and complex and intended for suitably qualified experts. They will consider them in addition to other relevant information for the building and occupants. However, there are occasions where we can provide a summary which we’re happy to share with leaseholders.”

@Babyroobs yes exactly- in fact, as our landlords, they are the ones who have the power to make the application for the grants (we can’t, it has to be them), and they have… they just won’t share much info at this stage. So we are completely in the dark.

it’s definitely in their best interests to get the grant for us though- so that’s vaguely reassuring.