To think this is disgusting - GP charging for form

[FrostedFancy]

GP surgery insist I must pay £40 for completion of a form from school to request online learning for my DD (14) who is suffering from MH issues due to being diagnosed with a serious health condition.

AIBU to think this is absolutely disgusting to profit from a child with medical condition and mental health issues needing access to an education?

Form literally would take 5 minutes to complete.

I suppose if you were never charged then it's a casualty of the ongoing war between the NHS and and the integrated care boards, which have renegotiated contracts with GPs over all sorts of things and removed some services to pharmacies.

It's not core NHS work for GPs if its not in their GMS or locally negotiated primary care contracts.

I had a 2 page form for student finance a few years ago, for disabled students allowance. It specifically asked the GP not to charge me for it because I wasn't able to claim it back from them. I still got charged £30 🤦🏾‍♀️ It was just so they could confirm my diagnosis and for them to sign.

You need to stop and think.

Who has assessed the educational needs? - not the GP.

Who has determined remote learning to be preferable? - not the GP.

Who has intimate and detailed knowledge of the local education provisions? - not the GP.

Who has looked after the child in tertiary care and made the SEND diagnoses? - not the GP.

What possible reason then is there to insist on a GP signature on a piece of paper? Absolutely none, other than to put up a barrier, and to offload responsibility.

I've heard of GPs being asked for letters from British Gas to expedite boiler repairs ffs, it really isn't their job just because someone else says it is.

A letter from the GP isn’t required for alternative provision. However, schools themselves are not routinely cc’d into clinic letters. (If they do in some areas they don’t in all.)

This is so true, all of it.

i worked in a GP surgery years ago and yes they do get requests to write letters to expedite boiler repairs and all sorts of other shit! They have these random requests thrown at them almost on a daily basis!

I think £40 is a lot but they should charge. GP should charge for people in general going in I think something little though like £5 every visit, hopefully that would stop people who like to visit for coughs, colds or a chat

Just my opinion

Unfortunately thinking doesn't appear to be a strong point of @Deliria . Especially ironic as they have repeated what PP have already been saying.
Patients don't need to see this 'wiring'... yes, they don't need to be sent back and forth with forms when the information is already available.

They accuse other people of getting excited by 'commissioning wrangles' but it's them who insists that the GP should just fill out the form for free. Because well if the LA requests it, it MUST be absolutely necessary.

The duty is on the LA to provide and to sift through the available evidence. Not the GP. Who as you said may not even be involved with the patient in this manner! The word 'general' in their job title is really being stretched.

FWIW for all the furore r.e. Physician Assistants this is the sort of secretarial work they should actually be doing leaving GP's free to see patients. Because of the insistence on a GP's signature for some imagined arse-covering, not due to any actual need it's the other way around.

Those of us with chronic conditions already have to pay for our drugs to stay alive. You think we should pay for appointments now too?

Just call your pitch what it is - a tax on the disabled.

The duty to work in partnership sits between the NHS and the LA. Have a look at the Act.

This is about the intersection of the health needs of SEND children with their educational needs and their is a legal duty on the NHS as well as LAs to work together to produce integrated support plans meeting health and educational needs of SEND children. The ignorance of this is alarming.

I’ve not read the full thread so not sure if it’s already been mentioned but does your child get dla, it is to cover stuff like this. That said I think in your case it’s more a case of the local authority/ school putting up an extra barrier for your daughter to access education which isn’t the gp’s fault. Have you gone back to the school and advised them of the cost and asked if they are happy to pay for this being as it’s something they insist on to access education?

@Deliria the statutory requirement to work in partnership

a) does not mean blind one-sided compliance - it means working together, not just signing a form because someone wants it signed

b) doesn't change that, if something's not in the contract, the NHS isn't paying the GP for it and someone needs to

As a doctor, a parent of a child with SEN, a wife who is a GP, a parent governor, and the SEN lead - ignorance is the last thing that I have.

For the final time. GPs ARE NOT "THE NHS" They ae contracted to provide NHS services. To massively oversimplify it to 'it's an integrated partnership between "the NHS" and LEA shows massive ignorance as to what the roles of different NHS organisations actually is.

The school / LEA may as well ask the local pharmacist or dentist to sign the form, it's essentially the exact same ask....

The prepayment certificate is £30 for 3 months and all meds are then included in that.

Lol those are two cases where their time is definitely not “free”. They literally charge billable hours.

All meds are not included in that. More and more drugs are being made OTC and when they are available OTC, GPs start refusing to prescribe them.

A GP will tell me I need certain medication but won't prescribe it all.

We're paying and more and more for our meds, and now the suggestion is we should also pay for the appointments for our standard prescription reviews, and for whenever we have a flare up of our conditions that we cannot manage with the usual drugs?

It's getting more and more expensive to have a chronic condition in the UK. And all during a cost of living crisis too...

Who is suggesting you pay for appointments? Literally one person upthread.

OTC meds are not hugely expensive and you’ll find it’s the NHS pushing GPs to get patients to pay for them.

The firm may well do, depending on the nature of the services offered and who’s doing them, but the individual quite often won’t see that. Other comparable jobs aren’t necessarily billing clients for time. My point was that people working comparable ‘career’ type jobs generally do not clock in and out and work only their hours or get overtime paid. But you know that, I think.

What I’d be interested in is hearing from the GPs who’ve commented on the thread in defence of the charges, what they do if a patient is on a low income/in financial hardship, and would struggle to afford the charge. Do you waive it or offer a reduced fee?

@ATerrorofLeftovers it’s not NHS work. I think it’s disappointing you’d think GPs “clock in and out”, how did you get that idea?

You're the one who jumped in and replied to my reply to that person.

Not hugely expensive? If I look at just one of my drugs that used to be prescribed, the annual cost is £215. That's on top of the £112 prepaid prescription for my other meds (assuming I pay annually, that is - not everyone can afford to pay upfront).

And yes, I agree the pressure is from the NHS on the GPs to prescribe less.

There is this misconception that the NHS is free to use, but if you have a chronic condition... it's really not. It's cheaper than in some other countries, sure, but it isn't free, and it's getting more expensive.

GPs don’t clock in and out on time either though do they. You literally don’t seem
to have a point. And you gave an exact example of a business where literally every minute to “clients” is charged for.

And to answer your next question (though I’m not a GP) I imagine that it’s the same as for any other private service. The charge is the charge no matter the financial circumstances- however external help to cover these costs may be available via appropriate channels (to use your law example like legal aid paying for solicitors fees).

It’s depressing that there is a thread running with a pregnant lady who’s waited what ten hours in hospital at the same time as people thinking that a GP’s appointment time should be used for filling in forms.

@soemptyinside it’s getting more expensive because people live longer and with more chronic conditions. Two of my DCs have medical conditions which are treated free on the NHS, but they can’t contemplate moving to the US (DD’s dream) because of the costs.

With respect, you haven’t read my post properly. I didn’t say I think GPs clock in and out, which is why I find the eagerness to charge for these a bit surprising. However, I have learned from the thread that GPs generally do, as they are not specifically contracted by the NHS to provide this, so are entitled to. I don’t think this is a satisfactory state of affairs for patients, but accept it is what it is.

I would hope there are safeguards for patients who can’t afford a charge of £40 for their child’s medical needs to be met. So I’m interested to hear what provision GPs make for those in financial hardship, even if they feel justified in charging others the full fee.