Page 12 | DP believes some psychics are real, I think he's lost it

Dpi8 · 2023-12-21T00:09:25+00:00

A discussion about a documentary I watched last night descended into an argument today when chatting over dinner. It was about Derren Brown and how he tests so called psychic mediums in an attempt to prove that it's a load of old rubbish - which I agree with him on. He got majorly arsey with me when I told him about cold reading and the other techniques they use, such as using vague statements that could apply to most people in the sitters demographic. IE, telling an elderly lady that they have a parent in the spirit world who had a dodgy knee. I asked him for some examples from which he reached his conclusion that some are genuine but he wasn't forthcoming with anything of any substance, simply mentioning some bloke from the Ghost Adventures series who wanders around buildings 'debunking' certain things for plausible deniabily then making up shite of his own to 'prove' the contact. This is a hill I'm prepared to die on as I will not accept that such tosh is in any way genuine. AIBU to say that absolutely all psychics are full of shit?

KnittedPond · 31/12/2023 13:05

zeibesaffron · 31/12/2023 12:57

You are totally unreasonable he can believe what he wants too. Is this really the hill you want to die on - give over!!

I would say that discovering your husband is a credulous, superstitious underthinker might well be a ‘hill you wanted to die on’.

Original poster

Dpi8 · 31/12/2023 13:58

porridgeisbae · 24/12/2023 10:29

I used to be involved in the scene and I think a very few people can genuinely do it (not me) but it's very rare.

Also if they do get right answers by psychic or cold reading means, it's from demons anyway.

Tell him everyone should seek guidance only from the Bible/Jesus.

Psychics etc are an abomination to God and will burn, sadly.

It's a bit cruel this god guy isn't he? I mean I don't particularly like or agree with self professed psychics, obviously, but I wouldn't wish death and burning on them..

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WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 31/12/2023 14:17

KnittedPond · 31/12/2023 13:05

I would say that discovering your husband is a credulous, superstitious underthinker might well be a ‘hill you wanted to die on’.

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Yeah, any psychic belief nonsense and it’s matrimonial lawyer time.

Abbyant · 31/12/2023 14:27

I used to watch a show about ghost hunters and they were plumbers so they’d check the plumbing and electrical wiring in the haunted homes and debunked a lot of things as they plumbing noises or feeling weird because of the emf reading by electrical equipment, but there was stuff they couldn’t explain.

Sjh15 · 31/12/2023 14:27

I went to one a year or so ago that asked me directly
‘who is’
’who is’
’who is…. Passed from pneumonia’
the first name was my mum. Second name was my dad. Third name was my MILs partner. She gave me their first names directly. Difficult to ignore that….

Grimpo · 31/12/2023 14:35

Jacfrost · 21/12/2023 09:33

The irony though is that being an atheist is like a belief system in itself. You strongly believe there is no higher power.

But the thing is, you don't know that, any more than somebody who strongly believes in a god. None of us have any proof or knowledge either way do we

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The difference is that no-one has to prove a negative. If I asserted that there was a species of big purple and green striped squirrels living in trees all over the world and you said there wasn't, it would be up to me to prove what I am saying; no-one would expect you to produce evidence that no purple and green squirrels exist, because you don't need to and it would be impossible anyway.

It's up to people who assert that a god exists and that it is their god rather than that of any other religion to prove their case, atheists don't have to prove non-existence. They can however reasonably point to the singular lack of evidence for the existence of a god, despite the lapse of thousands of years, as strongly suggesting that they are correct.

KnittedPond · 31/12/2023 14:35

Dpi8 · 31/12/2023 13:58

It's a bit cruel this god guy isn't he? I mean I don't particularly like or agree with self professed psychics, obviously, but I wouldn't wish death and burning on them..

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The demons and burning are as fictitious as the ‘psychics’.

It’s like saying the Easter Bunny is going to take down Santa Claus.

Original poster

Dpi8 · 31/12/2023 14:43

Abbyant · 31/12/2023 14:27

I used to watch a show about ghost hunters and they were plumbers so they’d check the plumbing and electrical wiring in the haunted homes and debunked a lot of things as they plumbing noises or feeling weird because of the emf reading by electrical equipment, but there was stuff they couldn’t explain.

That's the show DP is using as evidence lol

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WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 31/12/2023 14:46

Grimpo · 31/12/2023 14:35

The difference is that no-one has to prove a negative. If I asserted that there was a species of big purple and green striped squirrels living in trees all over the world and you said there wasn't, it would be up to me to prove what I am saying; no-one would expect you to produce evidence that no purple and green squirrels exist, because you don't need to and it would be impossible anyway.

It's up to people who assert that a god exists and that it is their god rather than that of any other religion to prove their case, atheists don't have to prove non-existence. They can however reasonably point to the singular lack of evidence for the existence of a god, despite the lapse of thousands of years, as strongly suggesting that they are correct.

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There is a difference between faith and claims though. If a religious person says “I believe in my god(s) and holy texts and that’s how I live my life”, they operate within a belief system. It’s not susceptible to evidence.

If they say “come to my church and we’ll heal your cancer”, that’s different. That needs evidence (and is illegal and immoral).

All psychics make claims, otherwise there’s no point in them, and they all need evidence. For which - faith healers and psychics - there is not a scrap.

Montegufoni2017 · 31/12/2023 14:58

YABU because you’re just being narrow minded. You don’t have to believe or have faith in anything if that’s how you feel but to dismiss DH’s faith is unfair.
Why can’t you just have different opinions on it?

KnittedPond · 31/12/2023 15:00

Montegufoni2017 · 31/12/2023 14:58

YABU because you’re just being narrow minded. You don’t have to believe or have faith in anything if that’s how you feel but to dismiss DH’s faith is unfair.
Why can’t you just have different opinions on it?

Because his ‘opinion’ is baseless, credulous and suggestive of chronic underthinking? All opinions are not equal. His basis for his belief in psychics appears to be something he saw on a TV programme.

DinoDays · 31/12/2023 15:08

Digestivechocolatebiscuit · 21/12/2023 08:47

I'm one of those psychics.. l have actually worked with my local police force in the past..( yes they use us).. l can't go into detail but it was to their benefit and all over the local news .. but they never say they used me or other psychics.

Edited

Did ya? Aye!

QueenOfHiraeth · 31/12/2023 17:55

It always amuses me when people use science as the fount of all knowledge to deny other possibilities. Science changes as new evidence becomes known and proven and often that new evidence arises from people questioning the current wisdom
I tend to think most psychics are not genuine but I struggle to explain the one who spoke to a friend, in my presence, with no prior knowledge of her, and said "One of your children is ill, it isn't just a virus, it's a long term thing but don't worry, she will be fine". Friend's youngest was ill and, at that point, the GP thought it was lingering effects of a virus. The following week she was diagnosed with T1 diabetes. She is now grown up and leading a happy healthy life.
It is arrogant in the extreme to claim either side of this argument is completely right and insult others who think differently. The best any of us can say is we find one side far more probable than the other based on our own knowledge and beliefs so most sensible people are somewhere between the two and would not choose to die on either hill

Jacfrost · 31/12/2023 18:10

Grimpo · 31/12/2023 14:35

The difference is that no-one has to prove a negative. If I asserted that there was a species of big purple and green striped squirrels living in trees all over the world and you said there wasn't, it would be up to me to prove what I am saying; no-one would expect you to produce evidence that no purple and green squirrels exist, because you don't need to and it would be impossible anyway.

It's up to people who assert that a god exists and that it is their god rather than that of any other religion to prove their case, atheists don't have to prove non-existence. They can however reasonably point to the singular lack of evidence for the existence of a god, despite the lapse of thousands of years, as strongly suggesting that they are correct.

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I didn't say atheists have to prove non existence. I just said nobody actually knows either way

Ortila · 31/12/2023 18:59

Yeah we do. Religion is just people making stuff up.

JennyMatrix · 31/12/2023 19:23

Why don't physics work for the police and solve all crime? Because they're too busy winning the lottery!

Original poster

Dpi8 · 31/12/2023 19:43

JennyMatrix · 31/12/2023 19:23

Why don't physics work for the police and solve all crime? Because they're too busy winning the lottery!

Apparently the police do use them, according to a 'psychic' that posted above. They said they worked on a well known case that was all over the papers.

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KnittedPond · 31/12/2023 19:56

Dpi8 · 31/12/2023 19:43

Apparently the police do use them, according to a 'psychic' that posted above. They said they worked on a well known case that was all over the papers.

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But they’ve signed the Official Secrets Act or are kept mysteriously quiet by police forces reluctant to admit they solved cases not because of good detective work but because Madame Doris from down the road got a funny feeling about the apparently grieving husband of the murder victim?

Shucks, it’s like all those paranormal feats not working under test conditions, or psychics being too unworldly and unwilling to profit from their powers to have claimed the James Randi prize.

IncompleteSenten · 01/01/2024 07:02

🤣 well I'm convinced.
It's not like people lie on the internet or that we're able to independently verify that claim.

NonPlayerCharacter · 01/01/2024 09:01

QueenOfHiraeth · 31/12/2023 17:55

It always amuses me when people use science as the fount of all knowledge to deny other possibilities. Science changes as new evidence becomes known and proven and often that new evidence arises from people questioning the current wisdom
I tend to think most psychics are not genuine but I struggle to explain the one who spoke to a friend, in my presence, with no prior knowledge of her, and said "One of your children is ill, it isn't just a virus, it's a long term thing but don't worry, she will be fine". Friend's youngest was ill and, at that point, the GP thought it was lingering effects of a virus. The following week she was diagnosed with T1 diabetes. She is now grown up and leading a happy healthy life.
It is arrogant in the extreme to claim either side of this argument is completely right and insult others who think differently. The best any of us can say is we find one side far more probable than the other based on our own knowledge and beliefs so most sensible people are somewhere between the two and would not choose to die on either hill

There has to be an actual demonstrable phenomenon before science can be invoked to investigate it. Nobody has ever demonstrated psychic abilities under test conditions. The techniques used, on the other hand, have been exposed and replicated countless times.

As a PP said, it's not an unexplained phenomenon, it's a non-existent phenomenon. And your second hand account of a psychic saying a kid has a health condition? That's your proof? Really?

Poppysmom22 · 01/01/2024 09:05

Let him believe if he wants to. I don’t know what’s ’out there’ and nor do you but you are wrong to challenge his beliefs would you challenge his religious views in such a way

IncompleteSenten · 01/01/2024 10:50

NonPlayerCharacter · 01/01/2024 09:01

There has to be an actual demonstrable phenomenon before science can be invoked to investigate it. Nobody has ever demonstrated psychic abilities under test conditions. The techniques used, on the other hand, have been exposed and replicated countless times.

As a PP said, it's not an unexplained phenomenon, it's a non-existent phenomenon. And your second hand account of a psychic saying a kid has a health condition? That's your proof? Really?

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Exactly.

Also poster said "Science changes as new evidence becomes known and proven"
Which is spot on.

And something mediums etc have never been able to do.

Science proves and disproves through evidence.

Psychics need to do the same 🤷

QueenOfHiraeth · 01/01/2024 13:41

@NonPlayerCharacter and @IncompleteSenten I agree with you to a point and did say that, on the whole, I am sceptical but I think we claim to know everything definitively at our peril. I prefer to remain sceptical but open to hearing the ideas of others than be dogmatic and dismissive as some posters have been on here.
Just for clarity though the psychic account was not second hand. I was there with the friend and heard what was said. It was 20-odd years ago so no social media and the only info given when booking was the friends first name which was a common one for my age group (think, Jane, Sue, etc). It could just have been a lucky guess but most children don't have long term conditions and it seemed remarkable for the diagnosis to come so quickly after it but, as you say, it cannot be proven

bruffin · 01/01/2024 13:55

QueenOfHiraeth · 01/01/2024 13:41

@NonPlayerCharacter and @IncompleteSenten I agree with you to a point and did say that, on the whole, I am sceptical but I think we claim to know everything definitively at our peril. I prefer to remain sceptical but open to hearing the ideas of others than be dogmatic and dismissive as some posters have been on here.
Just for clarity though the psychic account was not second hand. I was there with the friend and heard what was said. It was 20-odd years ago so no social media and the only info given when booking was the friends first name which was a common one for my age group (think, Jane, Sue, etc). It could just have been a lucky guess but most children don't have long term conditions and it seemed remarkable for the diagnosis to come so quickly after it but, as you say, it cannot be proven

If they were really psychic they would have said she would be diagnosed with T1 Diabetes, not a generality of a long term illness. Memory is really fallible , look at the research of recall done on autism and MMr. They looked at parents accounts compared to medical records. Parents claimed that first symptoms were within days of MMR, but medical records showed concerns before hand or months after. It's called Recall Bias.

NonPlayerCharacter · 01/01/2024 14:23

QueenOfHiraeth · 01/01/2024 13:41

@NonPlayerCharacter and @IncompleteSenten I agree with you to a point and did say that, on the whole, I am sceptical but I think we claim to know everything definitively at our peril. I prefer to remain sceptical but open to hearing the ideas of others than be dogmatic and dismissive as some posters have been on here.
Just for clarity though the psychic account was not second hand. I was there with the friend and heard what was said. It was 20-odd years ago so no social media and the only info given when booking was the friends first name which was a common one for my age group (think, Jane, Sue, etc). It could just have been a lucky guess but most children don't have long term conditions and it seemed remarkable for the diagnosis to come so quickly after it but, as you say, it cannot be proven

It's not even that lucky. She went to a psychic because her child was ill and the doctor's theory didn't seem to be stacking up. Psychic amazingly says that the doctor is wrong but the child has some unspecified condition that will ultimately be OK.

I've seen more astonishing episodes of Bake Off.