To think that vegetables are not given any respect in the UK?

[Undineimmor]

In other parts of the world, salad is a whole dish. Vegetables are valued, spiced, seasoned and cooked well. They are respected and their incredible, unique tastes really brought out .

Eg the other day I had some thinly sliced fried aubergines in a little soy sauce and spice. It was honestly the tastiest thing I had eaten in months.

Ditto eating some Saag Aloo.

I think the problem is that in the UK we tend to serve unseasoned, boiled vegetables as an unwelcome side dish to meat. I just wonder how we got to this place and how we can bring it on back?

Only by a number of the older generation. Not all do it but my MIL for example still cooks meals like her parents did. It's like post war meal nightmares. Salads for example are sliced iceberg lettuce, tomato wedges, grated carrot, cut white onions, 2 slices of packet ham rolled up, cheese cubes and cucumber slices. If she's getting fancy you might get some slices of pickled beetroot and a dollop of salad cream. Everything is in its own little section of plate. Peppers are "foreign fancy stuff!"
Her cooked veg is boiled to death and soggy. Dishing out sprouts is a tricky, delicate job as you have to get them from the pan to the plates without putting any pressure on them and making sprout mash. She recoils in horror at the thought of my honey and mustard glazed roasted parsnips and carrots or pan fried Brussels with bacon.
She owns salt, pepper and dried parsley. That's it. Nothing else.

Other then curry, none of those foods are on our list of favourite dishes

Veg is my biggest expenditure from the grocery budget

I grew up in the era of overcooked slush and so grew up hating vegetables but I learned to cook and I learned that preparing vegetables in a different way they became enjoyable

Its amazing how different a vegetable can taste when roasted or air fried with different herbs and spices. I usually have a pot of roasted veg sat in the fridge, dollop of it along side my breakfast or lunch , piled onto couscous , shoved into a jacket spud , bacon sandwich is nicer when paired with rocket and tomatoes (roasted and even nicer :)

Yes a lot of my influence is from Asia , the med, India but I think that is the same with everyone? My parents were from the generation of eating what was available ( post war) and what they could grow and I know my grandparents certainly wouldn't have known what an aubergine was

Genuinely traditional British cooking uses a lot of veg. But, by definition , to be part of a local traditional diet, that veg needs to be easy and reliable to grow in the British Isles climate.

That means carrots, parsnips, cabbage, sprouts, broad beans, peas, etc - basically the “all the trimmings” element of your Christmas dinner or roast.

Mediterranean veg grows outdoors readily and quickly in a Mediterranean climate, but not in ours!

Our chilly, damp island is, however, fantastic at growing grass - which we can’t eat but sheep and cows can - and this is the reason why culturally our meals use meat more than hotter drier countries where grass fed livestock were not traditionally so numerous. Even so, a traditional British diet was mostly veg with meat as a flavour accent rather that the principal element of the dish.

None of the foods you mention have anything to do with traditional British food culture, you’re talking only about industrially processed food and takeaways. I know a lot of people in the UK eat rubbishy factory food and nothing else, but that has complex societal reasons linked to poverty and historic familial poverty/ lack of access to decent food.

It’s important to recognise that 19th century industrialisation and urbanisation cut many families in England off from access to fresh veg “peasant” food about 100 -200 years before it happened in other countries, and the massive poverty and hunger of the 1920s and 1930s also eroded food culture. That has a lot to do with the huge class difference we see today in terms of who is eating factory produced rubbish and who is still eating something close to a traditional balanced diet.

Absolutely agree. When cooking at home I cook a lot of veg, love HFW Veg every day book.

But when eating out, it's all too often a side dish of boiled to death cauli, carrots and grey mangetout. At a friend's last night, we had pepperoni pizza, no salad nothing....

YANBU to suggest that veg are sometimes not treated with respect in the UK. It's often the case that some vegetables served in a 'meat and two veg' type meal are quite unseasoned. This is perhaps originally because they're meant as an accompaniment and will take on the flavour of a sauce or gravy they're served with, rather than being too highly flavoured in themselves. But too often these days it's a bit lazy, cheap poor quality ingredients are used and the poor vegetables are boiled for too long. I think the average quality is improving, but there are plenty of bad veg out there in pub meals and carveries.

YABU to imply veg are universally not respected, though. The other day it sounds like you really respected that aubergine, and I've had really delicious vegetable dishes in Indian restaurants in the UK, as your saag aloo. Even in traditional British food there is a respect for good produce in season: early new potatoes with a bit of butter, asparagus served simply to be eaten with the fingers, sweet ripe summer strawberries with a bit of thick cream (synonymous with Wimbledon and cricket teas).

Whereas if you were to have pizza at my house, there would be 4 or 5 dishes of salad / veg elements that would actually form the majority of the meal. But then, I’m from rural farming stock and my family food culture has never been disrupted by urbanisation or extreme poverty.

I eat load of veg and salad just as I used to at my grandparents house in the late 70s - all their lives they ate what they’d grown in the garden as their main food, just as their parents and grandparents did.

Not sure where you are eating these meals, maybe in a time warp back to WW2? (Although, even then they were maxing out their veg.)
You should read Dorothy Hartley's Food in England. Published in 1953. The vegetable section is wonderful.

If you really want to see a disrespect the veg attitude, can I recommned Anthony Chaffee on YouTube. His philosophy is "Vegetables are trying to kill you!"

You aren’t familiar Kevin the carrot then @Undineimmor?!

I don’t recognise any of what you say. Perhaps you associate with a particularly odd demographic.

That means carrots, parsnips, cabbage, sprouts, broad beans, peas, etc - basically the “all the trimmings” element of your Christmas dinner or roast.

All these can be absolutely delicious, but J genuinely know people to just boil them to death and add salt or pepper at best.

I thinkI get what OP means tbh. Experienced too many time green veg boiled until brownish sadly.

Great post 👏

OP I think you (and a few others on this thread) would really enjoy this book: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/scoff-a-history-of-food-and-class-in-britain-pen-vogler/3254759

Vegetables generally aren't "marketed" because they are produced by a wide range of producers and mostly can't be distinguished between producer. There is little value in farmer John running advertising for his onions because Farmer Joe grows pretty much identical onions so it's hard to have any distinguishing features that means people will specifically seek out John's onions over Joe's.

Frozen and tinned vegetables can be marketed because they are the product of a large manufacturer - eg Birds Eye, Jolly Green Giant etc. They have a logo, a marketing campaign and brand identity.

In days gone past there used to be state run marketing boards for different agricultural commodities - eg advertising the benefits of drinking milk or eating eggs or potatoes etc. But they don't exist any more. There are NHS healthy eating adverts though promoting eating more vegetables.

Supermarket adverts will generally feature aspirational higher value items at Christmas - eg big roast, fancy desserts because Christmas is supposed to be about treating yourself plus there is a much higher profit margin for them on those items than some kale.

I can taste this meal 😱😅

I think it depends entirely on the preferences of the individual. I had pie and mash for dinner last night but I also had peas, broad beans and french beans with it. I like the bulk veg give to a meal, and I need the fibre.

To an extent I agree with you. There is definitly an attitude that 'a meal without meat is not a meal' that persists. However, good recipies and vegetarian eating is there if you look for it. It's just not particularly well promoted to meat eaters.

I am immediately thinking of pub meals listening to this description, although I am sure it's not what you meant, but I do think the boiled veg side us very typical of their fayre.

So interesting you say this, when we were on holiday in India where it was mainly vege, my husband was saying how it didn't matter being vegetarian as it was all so tasty 🤣

Thanks @Xiaoxiong will have a read.

Suspect you are intentionally trying to be offensive with your list of beige food. Not many on there are even traditional British foods roast dinners, cottage and shepherd pies, ploughman's, Lancashire Hotpot include more veg than the apparent favourite dishes you've listed.

If the British really aren't nor have shown veg respect I can only assume allotments are for display purposes and the long waiting lists to get one a fun Sunday sport.

Add to that all of the crazy veg delivery companies I can only assume are making a massive loss and don't get me started on the vegan restaurants, can only assume are paying actors to fill the seats....

@MojoMoon the marketing boards do still exist, at least for some veg - not state run anymore though. An instagram cook that I follow is doing a series of sponsored posts for British Leeks (https://www.britishleeks.co.uk/) which I think is the marketing arm of the Leek Growers Association and you can see loads of the different associations here: https://britishgrowers.org/our-members/

I do think the boiled veg side us very typical of their fayre

The problem is that there are pubs that are chain places serving little more than microwaved ready meals, and then there are pubs like this or this or even this that are a world away and treat vegetables beautifully. It's hard to generalise even about "pub food" these days as so many pubs are incredible dining destinations in their own right.

You could think you eat healthy and barely have any veg. Carbs have been marketed as healthy food when they're not really and people rely on them too much.

You could have porridge for breakfast, a cheese or sliced meat sandwich for dinner and chicken and rice or spaghetti bolognese for dinner.

Good old British meat and two veg is much better for health.

I mean, speak for yourself.

Vegetables boiled till tender with a little salt don't need much additional 'seasoning' to be delicious.

I love a saag aloo. Don't like aubergine but I do like a batter courgette strip.

Honestly this very much speaks about your tastes and the people around you that cook for you I think, and maybe where you eat out, because it's genuinely not something I recognise. At all. It's like the American assumption that we're still surviving on wartime rations and boiling everything till it's grey.

Firstly, I am not trying to insult anyone so apologies for that! I love British food. It's really curiosity, which to be fair, various people have answered quite well as to why vegetables are seen to be an afterthought. I think to summarise:-

1. Marketing focuses on the food that will make a profit
2. living in a damp country our seasonal veg are somewhat limited, although there are now plenty of vegetables available from all over the world.
3. There are actually lots of exciting vegetable dishes whose praises are not sung regularly enough.
4. There is a slight class bias.

I think we need a UK set of delicious vegetable based dishes as mascots. We have cauliflower cheese I guess. With roasted veg a close second.