Page 7 | To overtake on the inside?

MerryMarigold · 2023-12-19T22:36:20+00:00

There I am driving down the M11. I overtake a lorry so I'm in the middle lane but there is no one in the left lane so I move back over. I'm driving about 65 but there are so many people hogging the middle lane that they are going slower than the far left lane and so I overtake them on the inside. I felt bad but WIBU?

DewHopper · 21/12/2023 20:28

macaronicheezepleeze · 21/12/2023 20:18

They're not checking their blind spots properly if they're surprised.

Passing some idiot dawdling at 60 in the 2nd lane when you're doing 70 to the left of them is fine. If the motorway is clear and you see them doing this far enough ahead then fine, overtake them on the right. But if you're having to drop speed, hang back and indicate through other traffic in the 2nd and 3rd lane just to overtake them and pull all the way back to the 1st lane, you're just creating unnecessary manoeuvres and increasing the likelihood of an accident.

Just pass them for Christ sake. It's not overtaking.

Show quote history

It's very poor driving and also dangerous.

ChristmasSteps295 · 22/12/2023 09:25

ElevenSeven · 21/12/2023 20:17

I think describing discrete drivers as a ‘big clump’ shows the anxiousness and inexperience of motorway driving, which is a massive factor in most middle lane hoggers, IMO.

Yep, the person I know who always hogs the middle lane (usually under 70 as well) is the most nervous driver ever. Same reason he drives down the middle of the road where he can as well. He also merrily changes lanes at roundabouts and rarely indicates.

He shouldn't be driving at all. You'd think he was trying to pilot Concorde through a school the way he reacts to perfectly normal road conditions.

I won't ever be his passenger again.

Cosyblankets · 22/12/2023 09:36

DewHopper · 21/12/2023 19:41

I was taught the same thing and always do this if it is safe to do so.

Show quote history

I always move over to let people join. I must be old too. But if there's someone in the middle lane and a line of traffic behind them because they can't overtake because the third lane is already full with others overtaking the knob in the middle lane, this is what causes traffic jams. If everyone used the lanes correctly the traffic would flow much better. And we'd all get there sooner!

DyslexicPoster · 22/12/2023 11:02

Astonishing · 20/12/2023 18:45

Isn't this an example of underpassing rather than undertaking? E.g catching up to someone while you're in the left lane who is going slower in an overtaking lane but not deliberately moving lanes to undertake?
I find most often the hoggers are in the third lane, it must be far more dangerous for me to move from the left lane across three lanes to overtake and go back again (on a four lane motorway) than to stay exactly where I am, doing an appropriate speed in the usually empty left lane.

If someone is doing 60 in the third Lane I’d have no issues what so ever undertaking them. If the roads clear I’d approach them at a steady speed. They aren’t checking mirrors or aware they are blocking the lanes. They have no awareness at all it’s incredibly unlikely they will pull in two lanes when your catching them up.

also I saw someone hogging the outside lane on the M25 and someone undertook, pulled in front of them and break check them. Utterly terrifying behaviour. If I had a dash I’d have sent it to the police. The person doing the break check was 1 metre off getting rear ended in the fast lane in the day on the M25.

Original poster

MerryMarigold · 22/12/2023 17:12

Wife2b · 21/12/2023 19:46

I have no issue with middle lane drivers, it’s the ones driving less than 70 that irritate me - especially if they’re in the middle lane.

The issue is that if there is so much traffic on the middle lane due to a collecting of middle lane drivers, they can't actually go as far as 70. That's what happened the other day. It wasn't one person pootling along, it s so many people refusing to go into either the left hand or the fast lane, that the middle lane was clogged up.

OP posts:

Gettingcolder · 22/12/2023 17:48

enchantedsquirrelwood · 21/12/2023 17:17

It isn't. I can be doing 70, move over, and the person joining accelerates quickly to 80 and beyond, and then wants to undertake.

I think part of the problem on the roads is the fact that some people drive extremely powerful cars and get frustrated with those who don't.

Tough in my view. People with expensive cars don't have more right to be on the roads.

Show quote history

In that case there is absolutely no need to move over for them in the first place.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 22/12/2023 17:57

Yes there is, because they are going more slowly as they approach the motorway but then decide to put their foot down as you get alongside them.

Sometimes they are already going fast and then you can stay put and let them on. But not always.

SerendipityJane · 22/12/2023 17:59

My driving examiner asked me the 3 situations in which it was permissible to pass a car on the left hand side.

None of them have changed.

Not much more to say really. Except merry Christmas.

(Do people still give kids a copy of the Highway Code for Christmas if they are looking to pass their test next year ?)

Daphnis156 · 22/12/2023 18:06

I'm sure I've been in countries where "undertaking" in a left lane is perfectly legal (for countries driving on the left)- but can't remember where.
Does anyone know? Of course the lanes will be opposite for countries driving on the right.

zaazaazoo · 22/12/2023 21:30

@rwalker @QuestionableMouse and anyone else who thinks the OP is in the wrong, they aren't. She isn't doing anything wrong. The people in the middle lane are just in the wrong lane.

A simple analogy proves it is completely reasonable to sometimes go faster in the inside lane.

In a multi lane motorway sometimes the traffic is very congested. Different lanes halt at different times. If the lane to the right of your lane stops moving but the lane on the inside is clear, OBVIOUSLY the people in the inside lane will continue to move forward. Thus by your reasoning 'undertaking'.

It is not the job of the person in the inside lane to hold back their speed to not go faster than a slow moving middle lane. It's the job of the people in the middle lane to move back into the inside lane.

zaazaazoo · 22/12/2023 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It is you Petal who is the moron

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk › ...
Motorways - Overtaking (267 to 269) - THE HIGHWAY CODE

zaazaazoo · 22/12/2023 21:36

WhichOneGoes · 21/12/2023 01:22

Oh dear god... some of these replies are scary.

Sitting in lane 2 when lane 1 is free is idiotic but 'undertaking' in the lane 1 in normal traffic is really stupid. That idiot who is sitting in lane 2 has already shown they aren't the best of drivers so what makes people think they would check for someone undertaking if they were to decide to switch lanes. This isn't just a legal issue it's a trying to minimize the risk of getting yourself killed issue.

The Highway code is clear that you should only overtake on the right on a motorway. It's scary that posters think it's ok to do.
"Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right" "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake" Highway Code on Motorways
Yes, there is an exception to that where the traffic is congested and you end up passing the cars in lane 2 or 3 but the fact there may be an idiot sitting in the middle lane is never an exception.

If you don't understand this then you shouldn't be driving on motorways.

Christ it must be embarrassing to be you

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk › ...
Motorways - Overtaking (267 to 269) - THE HIGHWAY CODE

Sirian · 22/12/2023 23:01

Undertaking is dangerous. Driving is designed so you only have to watch out for cars on the right, the side closest to where you’re sitting. People aren’t expecting cars to whizz past on their left and they could easily end up crashing into you if they decide to pull back to the left.

Obviously in congestion you can pass a slower moving lane - this is permitted because the road speed is fairly slow and people mostly aren’t switching lanes. But under normal road conditions you do not undertake.

WhichOneGoes · 23/12/2023 00:33

@zaazaazoo

Perhaps before you make nasty comments about other posters you should actually bother reading their posts.

Try reading my post again. It's not difficult. You will see that I clearly mentioned that there is an exemption about congested traffic. I wrote, and this is a direct cut and paste "Yes, there is an exception to that where the traffic is congested and you end up passing the cars in lane 2 or 3"

So insulting me and then 'correcting' me by pointing out that there is an exemption when the traffic is congested is actually embarrassing 💁🏻‍♀️

SerendipityJane · 23/12/2023 10:11

zaazaazoo · 22/12/2023 21:32

It is you Petal who is the moron

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk › ...
Motorways - Overtaking (267 to 269) - THE HIGHWAY CODE

Show quote history

Nothing has changed in the near half century since I took my test.

It seems.

zaazaazoo · 23/12/2023 13:10

@SerendipityJane from your own link ....

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

What part of this is proving difficult for you to understand?

zaazaazoo · 23/12/2023 13:13

@WhichOneGoes you seem to not understand what is meant by congested. The HV clearly talks about when all lanes are moving. Not when there is a gridlock. So when all lanes are moving it is very normal and appropriate that sometimes those in lane 1 will go faster than in lane 2. Stop being obtuse. You are quite confused about the rules. The HC does not want people swinging out to the right to go into lane 3 to overtake lane 2 when staying u. Lane 1 would mean one would gently go faster

Original poster

MerryMarigold · 23/12/2023 15:19

The HC makes sense to me, particularly as they insert the weaving in and out clause. In no way was I driving like that.

In my OP I was traveling around 6pm (rush hour). It was heavy traffic but not crawling. The issue seems to be the definition of congestion.

OP posts:

SerendipityJane · 23/12/2023 15:59

zaazaazoo · 23/12/2023 13:10

@SerendipityJane from your own link ....

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

What part of this is proving difficult for you to understand?

Just for the hard of understanding I was stating that the 3 situations in which you may pass a car on the tight have not changed in at least 50 years.

Sorry about that.

WhichOneGoes · 23/12/2023 17:49

zaazaazoo · 23/12/2023 13:13

@WhichOneGoes you seem to not understand what is meant by congested. The HV clearly talks about when all lanes are moving. Not when there is a gridlock. So when all lanes are moving it is very normal and appropriate that sometimes those in lane 1 will go faster than in lane 2. Stop being obtuse. You are quite confused about the rules. The HC does not want people swinging out to the right to go into lane 3 to overtake lane 2 when staying u. Lane 1 would mean one would gently go faster

No need to be so patronizing. You seem hellbent on trying to make out people don't understand when they do.

The Highway code is clear. You should not use the left hand lane to overtake and you should use the right hand lanes only to overtake but there are exemptions. There is nothing complicated about it. What more is there to discuss or think about. 💁🏻‍♀️

Middle lane hoggers are bad drivers and people who undertake on the left side lane (except for in certain circumstances) are bad drivers.

I had to do a 4 hour motorway drive yesterday having read this thread in the morning. During the whole trip there was 2 real speeders, one who was weaving in and out of traffic and I only saw one person 'undertake' and that was done in slowing traffic so not outrageous. There were quite a few middle lane hoggers but as they were slowly passing slower moving lorries they weren't that outrageous either.

Otherwise despite the traffic being fairly heavy it was pretty uneventful which was surprising, in a good way, over such a long journey.

zaazaazoo · 23/12/2023 22:42

@WhichOneGoes so you are saying no undertaking unless it's ok to undertake and then you can undertake. Ok.

WhichOneGoes · 23/12/2023 23:26

@zaazaazoo
👌🏻