Dad leaving is worse than dad dying? Dad leaving is better than shit dad? Why the hierarchy?

[nowyouseehim]

I am a long term poster but changed names for this. I am early 30s so raised in the 90s/ early 00s

To give context. My dad left when I was very small, my parents sent me to live with my grandparents at 6 weeks old. I went back to them for a while, then he eventually left when I was about 1ish and I was sent back to GPs. I saw mum every few months and had phone calls and sent her letters. Stayed with her for 3 weeks normally over summer and she came to our small home town hours from the city she lived in for Christmas, my birthday and maybe 1 other time a year. I never heard from my dad again until I was 25 (NC again). Before starting secondary she moved me to her city, and in with her and my step dad.

Here are some odd things I have heard about my various dads:

From one of my best friends at school, I'm glad my dad died and didn't just leave like yours, at least I know he loved me. We were teenagers her dad died when she was a child, I understand she was still processing but at the time thought wtf.

You're lucky your dad left, my was shit. I wish he had just left. That may be true, if laid out side by side him leaving might have been better. But it doesn't really mean it was nice that he left me. Said by a man in his 50s to me at a group counselling thing.

At my grandfathers funeral I was excluded by a lot of my aunts/ uncles as 'not a real child' even though my grandparents used to tell me when I was with them I was one of their children and could call them mum/ dad if I wanted. I didn't. But I used to get bullied at school because 'even your own parents didn't want you'. I do often wonder if my GPs had adopted a child from outside of our blood family would they have been treated like that. Some of my 'siblings' aka aunts/ uncles are close in age to me. And growing up for the most part they didn't treat me differently until it came to 'official things' like family photos. When my grandmother was really sick they hired a professional photographer to come get some shots of everyone and didn't tell me. They would always and still do say things like ' you are one of us, you were raised/ treated the same' but then completely dismiss me when I say how I felt/ feel. That sure aren't others worse off?

When my step father died. I cried at his funeral and his cousin cornered me and told me to shut up that blood is thicker than water, she was pissed drunk, her husband quickly over heard and pulled her out. He had been in my life since bio dad had left. On reflection though he took enormous advantage of my extremely naïve mum and was such a controlling person. I never saw a lot of what he did as bad. But it was, you honestly couldn't breath in the house unless it was his way.

Sorry gone way off track. I don't even know what I am asking just this has been going on in my mind the last few days.

AIBU to think it isn't a hierarchy of what was crapper? Why do people say these things?

My father died just before I was five - it affected the whole of my life. I'm now 69 and still feel resentment that I grew up without him.

Many years ago I read something along the lines of 'an absent/occasional father is better than a dead one'.

I think that's true.

People say these things because they're damaged by their shit/dead/absent father's or other life events and are trying to process it. People are flawed. Best to remember that, remember it isn't aimed at you and forget it/move on. They're just passing comments from damaged people. I'm sure you've probably put your foot in it before and not realised. We all have.

You've got shit mates who don't think before they speak

It's really pointless trying to rank these things in order of damage caused, so much depends on the individuals involved and there's no objective way of measuring it usually. I think for your own sanity you just need to try and keep away from people who make trauma a competition and put your own well being first.

I am sorry and somewhat surprised you encountered so many people with these views. Do you live in a place where family set ups are all the traditional nuclear family?

There is no competition in misery.

My parents have just done 60 years married, they live in a huge house and were very very successful and titled. I went to a private school and was given a privileged education. My parents never read to me, tucked me in, cuddled me and instead my only form of contact for many years was my fathers fists as he split my head open or punched 7 bells out of me. He was very very present in my life. Periodically when I stand up go him and give him boundaries he stops talking to me. About 4 years ago I asked him to stop ✋ with some comments about my son aged 5. He pretty much hasn’t spoken to me, it devastated me, therapy started and I’m still mourning the parents I want and need and will never have. The NC is processed and they no longer know our address.

death made have given me a similar grief or not. Comparing bad parents to dead parents you can’t do it.

I think people are viewing/hearing what you're saying through the prism of their own experiences. I.e. when you speak they are weighing and measuring it against their own life. They are unconsciously using that to reflect on themselves. The perspective which is governing their engagement in the conversation with you is firmly centered on themselves.
This is really common. Because humans are the main character in their own story, many people are still trying to process their own life events and the tangle of emotions it left them with and few people so to hear how what they are saying sounds to the recipient.

When you meet someone capable of hearing you, seeing you, listening to you and understanding what that all meant and was for you at the time... and responding accordingly, not filtered through their own self - then you will hear what your experience really deserves.
Which is more like 'that must have been so tough', or, 'despite your grandparents care meaning you weren't all alone as your parents made choices with deep and long lasting effects on you, their protection didn't extend as far as ensuring their other children respected you equally, not did it protect you from the judgement of others' - true empathy and appreciation for your own lives experience.

If you ever find that in someone rest assured it is very rare and precious.
You can get it from counselling, a conversation where your own perspective is the what matters and can be respected and helped to process without competition. But even then you need a skilled counsellor.

You know they are all crap, and it so depends on the situations / people involved. One of my childhood friends hated her dad after he had an affair and left when she was around 10, leaving them penniless. She never forgave him, even raised it in her mums Eulogy. When he died she was conflicted, but overall relived he was gone. She never told him when she got married and her stepdad walked her down the aisle. Had he died instead of left them, yes I do think this would have been better for her, but as I say, it so depends on the situation.

I got pregnant with my eldest son when I was just 16. His dad was never in my son’s life and whilst that rejection hurts, it was 100 times better than him in and out of his life, he was later on drugs and spent a long time in prison. So for my son, better he wasn’t involved, and had he died instead of just not been interested, yes I do think that would have changed how my son felt, the rejection wouldn’t be there and although he’s 30 now it’s really affected him.

But just so many variables and I never say to someone that one situation trumped another

It's normal to think about the impact of no father/ a shit father. Mine is so weak and I took the message that no man would stand up for me. My daughter's father was abusive, flat out abusive, verbally, financially, emotionally... so she went nc, in a low key way. In some ways I think that his impact on her sense of self is less because she rejected him, because his bad behaviour was so obvious. I feel like I chased after my father my whole life, wanting him to stand up for me and he chose the easy life every time. Anyway, not sure what I'm saying, just that we're none of us invincible, all types of fathers, good, bad, step, absent, present, passive, they leave their mark.

It's so understandable that you're feeling upset and questioning if you have "the right" to be sad. But you do. You get to decide if you're upset. Not your cousin!

People say things because they’re hurting. It’s one way of self soothing. It’s not personal and more for their benefit than yours.

Sorry you’ve been through so much.

I feel you. My dad buggered off when my mum was pregnant and my gran helped raise me. She was my world. And when she died I was pushed out of the process by my uncles who had done nothing to help her while she was ill as that was the hierarchy’. I am still sad.

I think it's a case of "the grass isn't greener" even though it looks like it. So if you've experienced one of those situations you might think you have it worse than someone who experienced another.

Having a parent die when you're young must be heartbreaking. But they didn't choose to leave you.

So if your parent chose not to be involved or might seem that the person with the dead parent has it "better" when in fact it's a different type of shut.
And shit dad's are shit dad's. Sometimes I wished my own dcs dad would fuck off instead of flitting in and out of their lives making them think he cared and then not bothering for a few months. Then coming back. Etc.

They're all just different shades of crap.

West facing,my DH mother walked out when he was 7, sister 8, brother 6. Went off with another man. Told me herself she didn't want to be lumbered with 3 kids, under 3,then had a baby very quickly with the new man. She was not affectionate, he said it was worse than her dieing because she chose to leave, she wouldn't have chosen to die. It wrecked his life,hes in his 60s,years of different therapies, councillors, anti depressants, multiple phobias. For many years he hated me going out without him, I think he was convinced I wouldn't come back.

@kimchio extremely nuclear family area, well that has changed in the last 15 years though. Small, rural, homogenous, at the time religious.

@Nannyfannybanny I am very afraid of abandonment I feel his pain, your poor husband. Did she come back at all or completely gone? I married a very stable, grounded man who loves me deeply. I have zero fears of him leaving me and I think that has helped a lot.

Excellent advice on here thanks everyone. For the most part I think I have faced most of the 'demons' these have left me with.

@Mariposistaa I get that, it was so crappy to be made feel less important even though I know that's not what my GPs though.

I know no two peoples stories are the exact same but I would love to meet someone with a very similar story to mine. I've met people who I relate to about one part or another but not the whole thing.

Nowyouseehim, she never came back. She did ring apparently,a few months down the line, told DH father she wanted to see the kids,to bring them to a local park,and failed to turn up. DH told me they hated her and refused to go. He didn't see her again till he was in his 20s married to first wife (she started having affairs straight away, and ended up going off with a 19 year old) I met him at work, after this,he really didn't trust women and was so screwed up, this was the 60s,no councilling. They had to move in with his paternal GM because his dad needed childcare. Apparently, she was a right dragon! His sister persuaded him to see him mother. They never had a proper relationship,we are now NC with mother and siblings after so many lies were told. He told me his mother knocked all the emotion out of him (not physically)

There isn't a hierarchy, that's the reality, they are all bad for different reasons. I can see the point that a person takes comfort in their dad being there until they died prematurely, fair enough, but that's grief processing another bad situation.

Again someone who grew up with fighting parents can think it would have been better if they had left, but they haven't lived with that reality, they can't actually say it would have been better just thy had a crap childhood

@Nannyfannybanny I can understand why he didn't trust women. It sounds like with his 1st wife he married a version of his mother. Even thought I can (and have) seek help as an adult as a child/ teen/ even young adult I was always told to 'get over it' bury it, the deeper the better. If that's what I was told in the 90s/00s as a child I can only imagine the 60s! I am also fully NC with my father. He got in touch when I was 25 I met him a few times. He couldn't or wouldn't give me a reason and it messed with my head more so that's that.

I look at my son who is a toddler and think does he have any idea how very very loved he is. That he is lucky because this isn't the norm for everyone. Then remember, no he doesn't have a clue, 1 because he is still very young 2 because he knows no different and takes for granted (as he should) that he has two parents who adore him and will do the the very best they can for him.

Some of my earliest memories are crying and calling my mother and begging her to come get me. But of course as I grew older that longing for her turned into anger. I still get teased sometimes at family gathering for being a 'drama queen of a child' who just loved to throw a tantrum.

Nowyouseehim, very similar to hubby, I was nursing (took a break back to office work my DM was dying in my hospital owing to GP cockup) I am both very empathetic and sympathetic, when he was young,he was expected to look after younger brother. In me, I think he saw both the wife and the mother he never had.

OP, I've got a friend with a really similar story to yours - even down to living with the grandparents. She's in her 50s now. Both her stepfather and real dad are now dead. She has a good relationship with her mother now which surprises me.

My dad left when I was 2, and in and out of my life after that (rarely and unpredictably). There isn't a hierarchy of shitness. It is what it is and we all deal with it. I remember a friend at secondary school saying to me in an argument once that "at least she had a dad" (I think he was very strict and she was scared of him - I can't recall whether he was hitting her).

Have you had counselling @nowyouseehim ? I have found it invaluable.

Nowyouseehim, I forgot I'm also the counsellor having studied physiology,my ex H tried to kill me,my late mum,who was my best friend died suddenly,all at once. I put my oldest son then 12 through counselling, he's 44 now, suffering from severe depression, spent a year in a mental health institution and is unable to work.

My biological father is still alive, he left when I was little. He was an abusive POS. I'll be going to the fuckers funeral, just to make sure he's dead.

My stepdad, also an abusive POS. He killed himself, and I'm glad he's dead too, although not the way he died.

Truthfully, whether they left, or died, both these men, these 'dad's' of mine, managed to screw up my life.

I don't think one way is better than the other, but we all have to process the shit they left us with. Some people find relief in saying 'oh I'm glad he left', whereas, 'I'm glad he's dead', because if my stepdad was still alive, I'm pretty sure my life would have been even more horrendous, than him dying. We all have our thoughts, what we tell ourselves, to get us through. There's no comparison.