To think this person is in the wrong job....

[InAMess2023]

Let me please preface this by saying that I am neurdivergent myself, but come from a family and background and era that's very much that you show up and get on with it (I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my mid-30s). I have today attended one of the sessions run by the NHS Trust I work for for ND staff (I'm non-clinical). I do have some very minimal reasonable adjustments in place that don't impact on my work - compressed hours and WFH now and again if I feel necessary.

One of the women is a trainee doctor. She first asked how she and her daughter could both get an ASD assessment because they need one yet their GP has refused to refer them for assessment because they think neither of them are ND.

She has said that she is due to start a role next week that will involve Liaison Psychiatry - she struggles to see more than 1-2 patients per day because of her inability to type up the notes and 'to cope with people'. The service is unpredictable but will be expected to see people as and when they present in A&E - she said she cannot do this as sometimes needs to be alone. Has struggled when working in A&E previously as was unable to see patients. Her colleagues have questioned why it takes three hours to do what everyone else does in 30 minutes.

I get it, I really do. But for example, I know my limitations and would never go for a job that involves significant interaction with people because of the way it makes me feel. I just feel like some jobs are suitable and some aren't - and this is not a suitable one for this individual.

You don't train as a pilot if you have a fear of flying.

She is clearly in the wrong job.

Yeah that seems an odd career choice. If you know you can’t do large parts of the job, in a reasonable timeframe, then imo you should look at other roles. Realistically an employer only has to make “reasonable adjustments”.

Watching with intrest...

It's the aftermath of the Failing Students thread... when reality bites!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4957602-we-fail-students-by-indulging-their-fragilities-libby-purves-in-the-times?page=9&reply=131294601

Yes, I would say this doesn't sound like the right job for her. It would be unreasonable for the service to limit her patient load to 1-2 per day. She could explore other reasonable adjustments (additional rest breaks, dictation software etc.) but otherwise this is a no-go. She will also unlikely get RAs for undiagnosed condition.
I am autistic myself and work clinically. I can cope with the pressures of the job very well, although I am very happy I can now work entirely remotely doing online consultations. I found MH crisis service really overwhelming so opted for a different specialty after 8 months. I wouldn't expect my former employer to accommodate me to such an extreme degree.

I'm in two minds. One the one hand my natural response is to agree with you, but on the other, this is the world we live in. "Reasonable adjustments" are expected and required. If someone wants to do a particular role and it's only an illness or disability that prevents them, it's up to the employer to find a way to make it work, not the employee to quit and do something else.

The office where I used to work had to get ramps installed for the one member of staff who started using a wheelchair after an accident. It was a "reasonable adjustment" - there was no option to say "tough, part of the requirement of doing this job is getting up the stairs into the office."

The person you're describing is no different to this.

It is absolutely the responsibility of the employer to accommodate reasonable adjustments but the question is "what is reasonable". It is reasonable to give additional rest breaks, maybe remove some of the duties, provide a quiet space for consultations/rest. But the key part of the role is to assess people in crisis. And these assessments have to be carried out within a specific timeframe. If a person is unable to perform a key part of their role, they would need to be redeployed as removing this key part would not be considered reasonable. Some reduction in workload may be, but reducing patient contact to 1h out of 8,5h working day cannot be reasonably accommodated by the employer.
The member of staff you refer to could do their role when provided with access to the building. This is a perfect example of reasonable adjustment. They also had a diagnosed disability which the person in OP does not. They suspect they have autism and, unfortunately, the employer has no legal obligation to provide reasonable adjustments without evidence of disability.

@Dotjones there's a huge difference between making the building accessible in the case of your colleague and not being able to complete a huge component of the job which is the case here. The key word is reasonable - yes reasonable for the employee but also reasonable for service delivery, which it's not.

My reasonable adjustments were to work 4 x 10 hour days to allow an extra day away from the office and to be able to work from home occasionally. Since covid we no longer have an office base and everyone WFH but it never affected my ability to do the job in anyway.

you couldnt get a job in an abattoir and then say i'm vegan so cant do most of the job, or get a job in a call centre and say I can only talk to 1 person an hour as otherwise too much - there are a lot of jobs out there, people have to take some responsibility of finding those that suit their skills and abilities. There might be other jobs that are not front line such as reviewing reports etc that may suit her better

As someone awaiting assessment for ASD myself - YANBU.

If reasonable adjustments enable you to do the job, then fine. But if you can't do the job even with reasonable adjustments, then you can't do the job.

This lady sounds as if she won't be able to do the job under any circumstances. Not full time, and probably not part time either.

I suspect this is one of those cases where a highly intelligent autistic student does very well academically and gets all the A levels and other academic qualifications (which is probably the main barrier to getting that job for most people). So on paper it looks great. But in the real world she also has difficulties which may prevent her actually doing the job. Perhaps she might be more suited to research or some other related field.

I think it is very different.

The ramps for the wheelchair user is absolutely a reasonable adjustment.

I am unable to do maths. My brain just isn't wired that way. I couldn't and wouldn't expect an employer to make adjustments in order for me to be a mathematician.

Common sense is needed.

I agree with the OP that it sounds very much like this person is in the wrong job.

I think the word "reasonable" is key here. In the example of the ramps, the wheelchair user was presumably then able to do the same or similar job to everybody else.

So the adjustments are there to ensure that a person can do her job appropriately, not to take most of it away.

I think it's brilliant that we are so much more inclusive as a society but there has to be a balance of responsibility here. Employers need to accommodate people but equally employees should choose jobs that suit their abilities.

This is why I hate the growth mindset "you can be anything" attitude because actually, you can't really and young people need to be guided in making choices that will be good for them.