Schools stereotyping autism.

[Beenpo]

Does anyone else find their autistic DCs school stereotypes them? It’s almost as though mine has an autistic child’s checklist and ascribes it to all ASD students.

The reason I post is because I have a 9 year old who is autistic (Asbergers type) and has ADHD. I often find his mainstream school gives him stereotypical autistic traits or blames ‘autism’ in inappropriate situations.

For example, one of my DCs strengths is that they are very flexible and adaptable. They do not mind routine change, if anything we are all a little chaotic in our family (I have ADHD). Today, my DC was upset as something had happened with their friends at school. When the class teacher spoke to me about it, they kept insisting that my DC was upset and reacted in the way they had because ‘Christmas was coming up which is unsettling for autistic people.’ The teacher couldn’t tell me what the actual situation was that had occurred with my DC and their friends, they just kept saying ‘you know your DC’s struggles, it’s that time of year.’

My DC is incredibly happy go lucky,
flexible, adaptable… can’t wait for Christmas and New Year!!

On another occasion they blamed routine change on mufti day for my DCs upset, when actually another child had been mean to them.

Does anyone else find this an issue with their child’s school or other people?

Yes my dd is adhd and asd

She is ok with change except holidays She likes to be at home however she like xmas
Birthdays. Theatre cinema
Shopping centres and so on

She hates food she feels is unsafe. School. Demands
Planes, small talk too many questions long car journeys

I believe her adhd helps her in a lot of ways. It kind of balances out her asd. Until it all gets too much.

School always say this to me too and I think errr OK not really. My boy is very laid back and as long as he knows what's going to happen even if it's 5 mins before he's fine.
All I've heard this past two weeks is unsettled because of Christmas. But in reality he had worms 😂

The problem with having an autism diagnosis is that it's a really common condition and so everyone knows someone who has it and a lot of people think that makes them an expert. We were told that ds2 couldn't possibly have autism from aged 2 to aged 11 because he had friends. At age 11 he changed schools and they said they thought he could have autism. They did a referral and we are still waiting for an appointment with the paediatrician and he is 15 now. They think it will be another 7 months wait.

Your child’s teacher is with them all day so it could well be that they are seeing things at school that you don’t see at home. It happens frequently.

School is sometimes the first place that concerns about neurodiversity are raised. Sometimes parents have noticed a few things but it hasn’t been the problem at home that it might be at school.

Behaviour that is a bit tricky at home can be catastrophic at school, eg most children can be defiant at times, but at school can follow rules designed to keep them safe. An ND child cannot follow these rules at school and becomes a danger to themselves, eg attempting to leave the school premises.

My son was diagnosed in 2011 when he was 8 and our borough told us that he probably would have been diagnosed with Asperger’s but they had stopped using the term. Interestingly, the borough we are next to were still using Asperger’s at the time and many people identify as having AS. He was diagnosed with ASD but was then changed to ASC as condition apparently sounded better than disorder.

my 12 year old daughter was diagnosed last month. We still live in the same borough. Her diagnosis was ASD.
they couldn’t be more different from each other if they tried. My son is extremely sociable but his life skills are lacking. My daughter is extremely independent, can cook, has excellent life skills but hates social situations and making friends.

schools don’t have enough funding to train their teachers enough about autism and it’s co-morbidities. There is so much information to take in and a class teacher has 30 children to cater for. I found that both of mine were let down a bit by their ( same ) primary and I had to advocate for them a lot. Im not blaming the teachers
fot this though. there simply aren’t enough hours in the day and enough money in the pot.

@YourTruthorMine That’s interesting. I have ADHD but lots of autistic ‘traits’. I haven’t met many people who have been diagnosed with ADHD or autism who don’t have lots of ‘traits’ of the other diagnosis. I wonder if they will ever merge them?

@HeBeaverandSheBeaver I agree, it helps ‘balance’ my DC’s autism. Interestingly, when they were taking ADHD medication, not only did their ADHD symptoms all but disappear but so did their autism. Unfortunately they had to discontinue taking them as it had too much of an effect on appetite.

I agree. I thought the same thing. I know there are other aspects but the umbrella term really shouldn't apply to everyone whether they meet 3 or 10 of the criteria.

And if a children copes well in different situations, can handle transitions, plays nicely, etc, then why do they have the diagnosis?

I’ve worked with a lot of diagnosed autistic children and ALL of them struggled noticeably more than the majority of their peers with these things - hence being diagnosed with autism! Are you aware that the DSM-V threshold for diagnosis actually reflects quite a significant level of need? It’s worth reading some up-to-date research about masking too.

Im not sure. Yes all dc are different.
And having a dual diagnosis would make a child quite different to either asd or adhd.
Although in this situation my asd/adhd dc does struggle with xmas. But i dont think its the change of routine as thst doesnt bother her generally.
It is
The extra activities so walks/seeing santa/fayre/singing so extra tiredness
Overexcitement for xmas day
Sort of the change at school to be 'fun' but its not because its a change. Its likely because maybe she doesnt like the endless films they watch etc
But huge issue and its referred to be pp - the fact other NT? Kids are less well behaved tired ill and overexcited. So they are more likely to misbehave and set dd off or distract etc.

Youbcould see after halloween at an activity dd friend was clearly overtired /too much sugar etc andcwas like a 10/10 hyper really set the whole club off and including dd who was becoming more hyper.

The adhd and asd a pretty different as i would expect an adhd child to have friends maybe have conflict and arguments. But equally could be shy.
Vs asd
some kids are not interested in others
Some interested but only while with other kids so happy alone
More likely than adhd to talk at people not pick up on others trying to walk away
Only want to talk about something they are interested in
Not want to go to clubs they arent interested - less likely to follow a friend there. Would quit even if friend still going.

Though inattentive adhd could seem away with the fairies and more interested in own interests.

Since going to secondary irs been clear that environment makes a huge difference. Even change of environment but not because of the change itself but because it has removed all dc crutch (her one friend) do its now clear she cant/wont make new friends. Not one frieǹd so far in her class. So the asd traits really showing. Adhd less so as shes not going to chat through lesson (like she was at a club) as no friends...
Secondary is in some ways more predictable as you have the timetable.
Again moving a set was a big issue not the change but it was really noisy. A lot of work missed and a lot of pressure. Teacher had no idea of sen either.

Oh and the insomnia around xmas and birthdays (which i get too) doesnt help behaviour.

This sounds like quite a fundamental thing that teachers need to know about him. I would expect anyone who works with him regularly to have read some sort of short profile about him that summarises his needs, triggers, strengths, and any agreed adjustments. Ours are written by the SENCo, based on notes we provided and a couple of handover meetings, and built on over time as teachers figured out what didn't work and fed back to SENCo.

Some school cultures are more open to listening than others. Some of my child's best teachers have been very early in their careers. They have been excellent because they care so much and really listen. But a school can do a lot to meet the child's needs better by ensuring there is accurate, up to date info about them moving up the school with them.

@DragonMama3 Asperger's is not used - long story. It got replaced with High Functioning Autism

Don't be a dick and correct people. Yes, everyone knows the DM was amended. However, some people still identify as that and don’t need dicks correcting them.

My (adult) child was diagnosed as such when the term was in the DM. They, along with many others identify with this as opposed to what many, including many clinicians in the field, believe was an ill-thought out move when it was removed from the DM and they were ‘rebranded’. They can identify as whatever they want. Anyone can.

You would get short shrift if you tried to educate my (adult) child that they no longer had Asperger’s but instead have ASD. They do not believe it is better or worse than ASD, just that it is completely different. That’s also encouraged by a few dev paeds, general paeds and psychiatrists who have voiced their opinion in front of them that the change was nuts.

Too right. I knew as soon as I saw the thread someone from the label police would be on here.

I just think that autism is such a broad diagnosis that it’s not a helpful diagnosis. It doesn't give information about what the child needs in terms of support.

I now try not to talk about DS having autism but instead talk about his specific needs and strengths.

Most teachers have very little time to get to know a specific child and have zero training or very little. So that is never going to cover the nuances and complexities.

Yes, I would say it is not only schools but also the health and social care sector. However, as other posters have said, the stereotyping is rife in society as well. We still have media tropes of autism (usually the really intelligent man with no social skills). This character makes a perfect foil for the more emotionally relatable neurotypical characters. We have ideas of the 'typical' autistic child or 'typical' autistic person in society, and when individuals do not match these stereotypes, we can be surprised.

Yet, to get to the point, when my eldest son received his diagnosis (at the age of seven), I was really surprised at how his reports and even his statement (this was prior to EHCPs) described his autistic presentation. His speech was described as 'monotone', he 'struggled to understand figurative language and humour' and so on. These were not traits we recognised at home.

When I entered teaching (further and higher education), we had 'autism awareness' courses. Now, some of these courses are excellent, but at the time we undertook them, they encouraged stereotypes, whilst promoting a person-centred approach.

Perhaps the worst or most dangerous aspect of the stereotyping is diagnostic overshadowing. For my eldest son, his serious mental illness was undiagnosed and untreated for far too long because there was an assumption from professionals, and therefore from us, that the symptoms he was exhibiting were due to autism (e.g. 'He's not hearing voices; he just does not understand his internal monologue due to ...'). For my youngest, his own neurodiversity went unrecognised due to his brother's diagnostic label (e.g. 'He's not autistic; he's just copying/reacting to his brother').

(I really must stop these rambling posts).

But many other diagnoses can be so broad too.

Can people stop calling it a label? It's a diagnosis. Or would you really call a physical disability a label too?

'It is that time of year plys being the end of a mega-long term applues to all the kids i work with atm

QuestBloomingdale

You too are demonstrating ignorance and are stereotyping.

“The DSM-5 Manual defines autism spectrum disorder as “persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction” and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests” (this includes sensory behaviour), present since early childhood, to the extent that these “limit and impair everyday functioning”.

There isn’t 10 criteria. The criteria is as above. You don’t need to play badly or be able to handle transitions to get a diagnosis.🙄And many many women and girls mask so will copy play and camouflage to manage situations.

SingleMum11

It’s a hugely helpful diagnosis. You get a report individual to you. My DD’s has enabled her to have treatment adjusted to her presentation which has saved her life. My son is getting a huge amount of reasonable adjustment honed to his report in a service supporting him and my autism report has changed my life.

I got told (by the SEN coordinator, no less) that my DD had "no imagination, because of her autism".

Riiiiiight. This is the same child who lives almost entirely in a dream world of her own making, and writes epic, pages-long stories about it, with a vast array of characters she's completely invented, is it?

As a teacher, I have taught autistic children who are ok with routine changes but when I say this to parents, I'm told they're masking in school and parents are having to deal with massively dysregulated behaviour when the child arrives home on any day there has been a change of routine.

Me too.

(Also, it's the end of term and teachers are stressed and tired, most are probably trying their best).

A lot of the school curriculum requires children to sort of switch their imagination on 'on demand' as it were. Autistic children who, as you say, can create highly imaginative worlds, stories etc, often struggle to use their imagination to create something to meet a criteria provided by someone else. So yes, you're right - no imagination is completely inaccurate - difficulties using imagination in the way the school curriculum requires - possible.

Just like his NT peers, my son has his needs met when his teachers have the time, energy and resources to be able to get to know him and what helps the most. Many teachers are so stretched in terms of these things, but they do genuinely want to do a good job. This is when they end up using previous experience with young people with ASD, or the information they have been given on training courses to try their best for him. I am very grateful when teachers who are teaching hundreds of young people each week, including young people who are NT in a myriad of ways seem to at least be trying to meet his needs.

I was told at a parents evening when ds was 7 that they weren't too worried that he was behind in maths as 'he'll catch up as they tend to be good at numbers'

He's now 15 and still rubbish at maths.

This is an interesting thread as I suspect my DS has ADHD and I've also been questionning ASD but he's very flexible - I'd say he's more adaptable to new environments than the average child - and a lot of what I've read about ASD makes me feel that difficulty with change and transitions is practically a defining feature of ASD.

So it's interesting to hear from people with children with diagnosed ASD who are similarly adaptable.

With respect to using the term 'label', I do apologise for any offence I may have caused. Autism is a diagnosis, but diagnosis does involve diagnostic labelling.

For example, there have been many diagnostic 'labels' applied to try to distinguish between the various presentations of autism. Prior to revisions in the DSM V and ICD 11, the labels (yes, they were diagnostic labels) of 'Asperger syndrome' Kanner autism, PDD-NOS (in the USA) or atypical autism (sometimes used in the UK) may have been used. Even labels such as 'High Functioning Autism' could be applied, but this was a controversial label for many reasons.

The terminology used to describe the different presentations of autism are now primarily used to imply anticipated support needs. Yet it is still labelling.

My own preference is to use the term 'neurodivergent', yet even this label can be controversial due to the generalising properties of the term, and, the perhaps well founded argument, that the term may inadvertently exclude the consideration of autism (and other conditions) as a disability.

These are just my own opinions. I realise there will be many people who have very different perspectives.