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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I'm so fucking sick of a and e wait times

553 replies

cutrtain · 17/12/2023 21:30

As a working mother to a toddler in nursery, I'm just fucking done with how long it takes to get help in a and e for my child.

It's starting to make me not want to go, in situations that I would have maybe gone in the past.

I'm absolutely exhausted. It's always 3/4 hours wait, at least.

I'm just so done with it. It's a disgrace.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Chilicabbage · 18/12/2023 17:03

Littlegoth · 18/12/2023 16:56

There are a lot of things we did in the olden days that we thankfully don’t do anymore.

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Some of us do...
The only reason not to would possibly be that body does raise temperature for a reason, but quite frankly, persistent 40 is bit ott imho. But I am scorned because I ended up having chats with people who are not there

Littlegoth · 18/12/2023 17:06

Chilicabbage · 18/12/2023 17:03

Some of us do...
The only reason not to would possibly be that body does raise temperature for a reason, but quite frankly, persistent 40 is bit ott imho. But I am scorned because I ended up having chats with people who are not there

Show quote history

I think the reason not to do it is that it doesn’t actually work to reduce the fever. Or at least science doesn’t think so.

Pigglycat · 18/12/2023 17:07

RosesAndHellebores

Blood in poo due to constipation. Is child in discomfort - if not, wait for GP. Give sufficient fruit/fibre if weaned.

Parents who are not medically qualified are not able to diagnose constipation as the cause of blood in poo. That's what doctors are for. It would be very wrong for a parent finding blood in a child's poo to leap to the conclusion that it had been caused by constipation or indeed anything else, unless there had previously been a diagnosis of something presenting in the same way.

I agree with those who don't understand why so many people have jumped on the OP. She mentioned breathing difficulties and a very high temp that wouldn't go down. Those are potentially emergencies in a child, and OP was advised to go to A&E to have them checked. It's not the fault of people in OP's position that A&E is on its knees.

BIossomtoes · 18/12/2023 17:07

SatanClaws · 18/12/2023 16:59

Yet.

The crucial thing with healthcare is that things are caught in a timely manner, not left until crisis point

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That’s why people are triaged in A&E. Sigh

theresnolimits · 18/12/2023 17:08

Part of the issue is 111 IMO. Their default is to refer to A and E because they don't have the medical expertise. It frightens people into going whereas if they hadn't called A and E, they might have waited it out.

I had to give a wry smile when there was a thread the other day about someone who was paralytically drunk and the wife didn't want her husband to stay with the women. I would say every 4th poster said 'Call an ambulance and leave her'. Is that what we think the NHS should be dealing with? Using resources to pick up drunks? I think I read an overnight stay in hospital plus the tests costs about £2000 - should that resource be used picking up drunks? And let's face it, if you go into A and E in a university town on a Friday or Saturday night it will be rammed with sports injuries or drunk incidents. When are we going to grow up and take some responsibility? If each of those call outs were charged £200, do you think we'd see quite so many of them?

My husband has to attend a regular clinic - they email/text relentlessly in the few days beforehand. When he asked whether that helped, they said no, they still had 25% no shows. What a criminal waste. If there was a minimum charge or a charge for no shows, would that help?

Sometimes, I think we have the NHS we deserve

Chilicabbage · 18/12/2023 17:09

Littlegoth · 18/12/2023 17:06

I think the reason not to do it is that it doesn’t actually work to reduce the fever. Or at least science doesn’t think so.

Edited
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Helps me snap out of "delirium" tho. So it does something 🤷

cyclamenqueen · 18/12/2023 17:10

EndOfMyTether11 · 17/12/2023 22:00

This.

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The OP has clearly stated that she did go to the GP first and they sent her to A&E

Littlegoth · 18/12/2023 17:14

Chilicabbage · 18/12/2023 17:09

Helps me snap out of "delirium" tho. So it does something 🤷

Show quote history

Then who is complaining 😊

Benibidibici · 18/12/2023 17:30

The point is OP's child did not hit crisis point, this the triage was effective and more poorly children were seen first.

There's no such thing as "A&E wait times" in that they aren't consistent, you aren't seen in the order you arrive. You are filtered, and seen when you need to be seen.

paperfarm · 18/12/2023 17:31

You have followed advice and done what 111/GP have asked you to do. They do operate on the quality of info they receive...said as a caution that we don't know what that is. You must have ended up being triaged as low illness/risk.

We are one society and we need to decide how to care for and use the precious resource of the NHS. If everyone wants their child to be seen in ED everytime they have a fever (not what you've said...just an example) then who doesn't get seen and where does the money come from? How do we feel if our need for our child to be seen when they have a simple viral infection causes delay for another child who has a significant medical problem? Data is absolutely clear that children are being seen more than ever at GP and ED and serious stuff diagnosed the same amount (ie children are being taken when they don't need to be seen by anyone).

Everyone should use Healthier Together (a free and EXCELLENT app) to determine if their child needs to be seen. It would bring ill children to ED sooner and keep well ones away. Trust me - much better for asking advice on mumsnet.

Wormthatturned · 18/12/2023 17:40

paperfarm · 18/12/2023 17:31

You have followed advice and done what 111/GP have asked you to do. They do operate on the quality of info they receive...said as a caution that we don't know what that is. You must have ended up being triaged as low illness/risk.

We are one society and we need to decide how to care for and use the precious resource of the NHS. If everyone wants their child to be seen in ED everytime they have a fever (not what you've said...just an example) then who doesn't get seen and where does the money come from? How do we feel if our need for our child to be seen when they have a simple viral infection causes delay for another child who has a significant medical problem? Data is absolutely clear that children are being seen more than ever at GP and ED and serious stuff diagnosed the same amount (ie children are being taken when they don't need to be seen by anyone).

Everyone should use Healthier Together (a free and EXCELLENT app) to determine if their child needs to be seen. It would bring ill children to ED sooner and keep well ones away. Trust me - much better for asking advice on mumsnet.

👏🏻

Imliterallywingingit · 18/12/2023 17:43

Adults who go there for minor headaches or drinking too much is the problem. Not children with breathing difficulties or blood in stools!

YANBU - a&e is awful for waiting times. Especially for young and elderly.

Original poster
cutrtain · 18/12/2023 17:57

Benibidibici · 18/12/2023 17:30

The point is OP's child did not hit crisis point, this the triage was effective and more poorly children were seen first.

There's no such thing as "A&E wait times" in that they aren't consistent, you aren't seen in the order you arrive. You are filtered, and seen when you need to be seen.

We usually get seen pretty quickly for breathing issues but then have to hang around ages as well. They'll give steroids and say they'll see us again in an hour but the doctor takes another 3 - 4 hours as the observations are fine at that point.

A and E is also to rule things out. So when they may have suspected something serious and it's ruled out, it doesn't mean you shouldn't have gone.

OP posts:
paperfarm · 18/12/2023 18:03

Do not kid yourself that a well child appropriately triaged is a safe situation. They block cubicles, triage time and clinician time. Having many well children in the waiting room is unsafe and absolutely means unwell children wait longer.

Pigglycat · 18/12/2023 18:27

@Angrymum22

My DH had a stroke last year, it was 5pm on a Fri, not the best time to need NHS emergency services. The ambulance arrived in under 15 mins and DH was in the ED before 6pm. He was scanned and treated with anticoagulants by 8.30pm and on the stroke ward by 9.30pm. There is nothing wrong with A&E if you have a genuine emergency. I wasn’t allowed to accompany DH , it was still Covid rules. I thought that he would struggle to advocate for himself but I needn’t have worried. I suspect that when relatives were not allowed in, staff were able to work without interruption and with much greater efficiency. I am eternally grateful to them for returning my DH to me almost as he was before the stroke.

I'm glad things went well for your DH, but why on earth are you assuming that because you had a good experience the system always works that well for others? Do you imagine that people who describe bad experiences are making it up?

When my elderly aunt had a stroke about 2 years ago, also during Covid, she was taken to A&E and my sister wasn't allowed in. By the time I got there (I had a 90 minutes drive) I spoke to the A&E doctor who effectively lied, telling me that my sister had said my aunt was back to normal, and that they were therefore proposing to send her back to her nursing home. My sister had said nothing of the sort, because it wasn't true. My aunt's face was still drooping and she could barely speak. I had to fight to have her kept in. To A&E (or at least the staff on that night) she clearly didn't matter as she was in her 80s, and in a nursing home. A couple of weeks later a consultant on the ward ordered a scan, which confirmed the stroke.

The whole thing is in a terrible mess. Not only is it too busy but too often staff are uncaring and simply ignore input from relatives. (Hint: not all relatives are idiots or unreasonable, and they always know more about teh patient than the staff who have never met them before.) Being tired and stressed is not an excuse. My parents were both qualified nurses and would be beyond horrified to see the state that the NHS has deteriorated into. Having said that, it's not all new. Even 40 years ago I saw my father in despair because his own father was left unfed in a hospital ward: the old story about the food being placed on a table and then simply removed an hour later when the patient hasn't been able to feed themselves, or has perhaps slept through the mealtime.

Brightredtulips · 18/12/2023 21:34

Count your blessings your child isn't the one being rushed in on a trolley. There are only so many doctors and nurses on shift as I'm sure you are well aware. Too many people waste this service. The gp should have dealt with you as obviously not an emergency. Some GPs are too quick to defer. Sat evening in city hospitals full of drunks/drugs, fights. Its horrendous. Damage limitation is to get them seen to and away, while also dealing with resus etc. Its treated as a walk in clinic as people know they will get seen to.

User14March · 18/12/2023 21:36

Pets v humans

If our dogs or cats get sick tonight, for a fee, I can summon ‘A&E’ to me. In London they arrive with all the kit.

The emergency vet will see my dog at any time, limited wait & dog will be kept comfortable.

It strikes me as extraordinary, the contrast. More & more emergency vets seem to be popping up everywhere.

Teder · 18/12/2023 23:10

User14March · 18/12/2023 21:36

Pets v humans

If our dogs or cats get sick tonight, for a fee, I can summon ‘A&E’ to me. In London they arrive with all the kit.

The emergency vet will see my dog at any time, limited wait & dog will be kept comfortable.

It strikes me as extraordinary, the contrast. More & more emergency vets seem to be popping up everywhere.

The fee is the key part! I’ve always thought if I ever got seriously unwell, I’d rather be treated by the vet than my local A&E. I don’t even get a treat or get called a good girl. :(

User14March · 18/12/2023 23:12

@Teder no one seems to bat an eyelid on £200-300 plus on a sick dog & most have pet insurance.

ProfTeeCee · 18/12/2023 23:22

Brightredtulips · 18/12/2023 21:34

Count your blessings your child isn't the one being rushed in on a trolley. There are only so many doctors and nurses on shift as I'm sure you are well aware. Too many people waste this service. The gp should have dealt with you as obviously not an emergency. Some GPs are too quick to defer. Sat evening in city hospitals full of drunks/drugs, fights. Its horrendous. Damage limitation is to get them seen to and away, while also dealing with resus etc. Its treated as a walk in clinic as people know they will get seen to.

100% this!

I note the clinical symptoms OP is presenting to A&E with, and whilst they may be attending 'as per the directions of the GP or 111', none of these issues are accidents or emergencies compared to the cases we deal with out back. Be thankful you aren't one of them OP!!!

The reality is OP, you are being triaged as a non emergency hence the long wait.
Where I live, if we don't want an extended wait at a public A&E department, we go to a private one and hand over almost $1k just for an initial consult.

I have 4 almost grown up kids and can count on one hand the number of times I've been to A&E with them. I'm struggling to understand all of these presentations that are disrupting your working life....

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/12/2023 00:14

I can understand how this happens. DS2 had chronic tonsillitis which kept flaring. He would get a ranging temp and be vomiting. He was very unwell each time. The only solution was to keep him on antibiotics until we could get his tonsils out when he was 3 years old. He was on AB for 6 weeks continuously prior to surgery and his tonsils were still infected when they were removed.

Keep a record of each bout of tonsillitis as there are clinical guidelines for when they should be removed in cases of recurrent tonsillitis.

SgtJuneAckland · 19/12/2023 00:23

I don't think 3-4 hours at a&e is bad. Isn't that around the target time?

Last time I went in gall bladder but they thought initially it was my heart, I was there for 13 hours. Given morphine without them telling me what it was or asking if I'd had it before (hadn't) then just leaving me in the waiting room. I was out of it and alone in the middle of the night, it was quite frightening.

Roundycippae · 19/12/2023 16:24

I have a kid with a chronic condition and still haven’t been to A&E ever. We’ve had paramedic out to hse, or used after hours service or been told to come to hospital after speaking with 111 but never had to use A&E for out of hours anything.

people like you, dragging their kids into A&E for minor things are the reason it’s always so rammed.
And they are minor - which is why the triage system means you have to wait and wait.

If it wasn’t free, I don’t think for a second you’d be going there so frequently.

Roundycippae · 19/12/2023 16:25

‘ don't think 3-4 hours at a&e is bad. Isn't that around the target time?’

its really not given that at any moment someone having a heart attack or hurt in a car crash or seriously injured can be rushed in.

Roundycippae · 19/12/2023 16:30

DP broke a wrist and we sat in A&E for 2 hours before being seen, and we’re just thankful that 1) it was free ( DP is from the US where they check you can pay when your arrive and that decides the treatment you get, not need) 2) it was fairly quick given the people being rushed through the doors from ambulances

the care was exemplary and although DP was in a lot of pain, there was no risk to life so of course we needed to wait.