I'm so fucking sick of a and e wait times

[cutrtain]

As a working mother to a toddler in nursery, I'm just fucking done with how long it takes to get help in a and e for my child.

It's starting to make me not want to go, in situations that I would have maybe gone in the past.

I'm absolutely exhausted. It's always 3/4 hours wait, at least.

I'm just so done with it. It's a disgrace.

I used to get terrible tonsillitis with great regularity back in the 70s. Eventually had my tonsils out aged 11, they met at the back of my throat they were so enlarged.

I never went to A and E, presumably because my mum and our family GP knew that I got tonsillitis a lot, that the initial symptoms were tummy pain and sore throat, and I was given "banana medicine" - antibiotics - straight away because it was known that it was, for me, needed. I was swabbed positive for "strep throat" a few times in the later years before my tonsils were whipped out.

It seems like it's that sort of discretion based on knowledge of a patient that seems to have disappeared under blanket policies.

This is such a good point - I’m 33 and in the 90’s and early 2000’s i remember cutting my face open at school quite badly. The teaching assistant took me down to the GP office in the village because mum and dad were working and the nurse there cleaned it for me and dressed it. They were slightly worried I’d fractured my eye socket, but the advice was to watch and wait - if it swelled up it was probably needing an x ray but they’d do that at the minor injuries unit in the local town if I needed it. I didn’t.

I think in the general population there’s a lot of ‘hear hooves, think zebras’ going on - so routine symptoms that are probably benign but are also symptoms of something rare but horrible are being treated as if they’re likely to be the horrible thing, meaning stuff that could be treated in primary care are being escalated for no reason. This just wasn’t the case years ago because you didn’t google your symptoms and think the worst.

Some kids are just a bit more prone to things than others though, it's luck of the draw. My five-year-old seems to be almost immune to colds these days and almost never comes down with them even when he's surrounded by kids streaming with snot. I can't remember the last time he had a sniffle.

But when he was about two it was a different matter and he needed hospital treatment for a couple of infections that got worse very quickly, awful attacks of croup that left him struggling to breathe, and we had quite a few trips to A&E. Some children go through these phases even without chronic conditions. Other times they might have a chronic condition that hasn't been diagnosed yet- it's not like it's always easy to get a referral and diagnosis.

If we have one of those, it's not listed on the trust's website. And if I couldn't get a friend to give me a lift, it would cost £70 in taxi fares to get there and back again, so I hope I never need it!

Ours isn’t run by the Trust so it’s not on its website. It’s available purely to people tipping up at A&E inappropriately or by referral by 111. It’s not publicised anywhere or it would be overwhelmed in no time.

I think we as a country need to remove the rose tinted glasses re the NHS and stop treating it as it’s some golden egg, that we should be grateful for subpar healthcare because it’s free at point of use. It doesn’t work, people are suffering because it doesn’t work. It needs radical change

You can't say that it's blasphemous!

These positive anecdotes are great but should not detract from a deterioration in care overall. I have worked for decades in the same trust. And have seen the offer we have for patients reduce in quality over the years. We don’t have enough staff for the demand.

I too have adult kids who were lucky enough not to use an and e or ever need antibiotics, hospital care as kids etc. That was just luck. But if they needed it, I would want a service that was safe and responsive. It’s not too much to ask in as rich a country as ours.

And Labour were no saints either with their private finance initiatives. I don’t care which party sorts it but we need some action.

Yes, it does need radical change. It also needs changes in behaviour in relation to A&E, many attendances are entirely inappropriate.

If you did not vote last general election or voted Tory, zero sympathy for you. Otherwise I hope some of the positive suggestions of others work for you.

How do you know this?

I assume in your role, you questioned patients and staff and have the data to hand.

In fact AE attendances over the last 14 years have remained relatively stable, what has changed is a dramatic collapse in adult social care and MH services, leading to patients being stuck in AE as there is just no available capacity in the hospital, this then leads to few staff in AE (as they have to treat the people on the wards and in corridors)

Sort out ASC and MH services and the AE/Hospital crisis will reduce.

Anyone who is involved with triaging either as a nurse or doctor would know this, even the staff involved know who the time wasters are and how often they arrive

Bull shit. Stop scaremongering people away from medical care, it's not your place to do so. Triage is there for a reason. People's attendance at a&e is monitored by the NHS As it is they don't need some eejit from Mumsnet making sanctimonious decrees like this too.

And generally there is an underlying medical or social reason people use services so frequently. It is not our place to judge.

It’s difficult this one, parents worry about their kids, but unless it’s really serious, 111 will give advice on whether you need a/e and yes it’s not brilliant but I’ve found that for young kids at least they respond quickly and appropriately, a/e wait times are like they are in part due to the high numbers who attend as they can’t get appointments elsewhere, whole health system needs an overhaul

I don’t have the data to hand @Absolutely45 but after working in acute healthcare for 30 years and being responsible for numerous campaigns to discourage inappropriate A&E attendances based on that data, I know it to be the case. We didn’t spend time and money on those campaigns for shits and giggles.

Incidentally A&E attendance rose 20% between 2012 and 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/378338/total-accident-and-emergency-attendances-in-england/

Scan and diagnistic test NHS waiting times- article today. You can pay and choose a slot for an MRI at our local hospital within 1-2 weeks. .https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/24/nhs-england-patients-wait-times-mri-ultrasound-ct-scans?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It's true that you shouldn't be at a & e with these kind of issues BUT people like the op are being sent there by 111 and GPs as there is no other option.

You don't always know if you are going to be a time-waster or not.

I once took DH to A&E after he developed a fever 2 weeks after an operation. We both had a bad feeling about it.

Before we went he had some paracetamol, so by the time we were actually seen by a nurse his fever had gone down a lot. Out of caution they ran some bloods and DH was actually seriously ill to the point where had we stayed at home he probably would have died. He had to stay in hospital for 2 months.

Would we have been time-wasters if it turned out to be something more innocent?

It could be worse... you could be asked to present your credit card to settle a huge bill as you leave...
Of course, if you were prepared to do that I'm sure the NHS could employ more staff and expand their existing facilities..🙄

Misuse of health services are ‘part’ of the reasons why the NHS is crumbling. Inappropriate and repeated GP attendances have a knock on effect on the number of patients a GP can see in a day.
Every single GP surgery has multiple well known and repeat time wasters.
Add to that the many people who demand repeated GP assessment for childrens behavioural issues, sleep issues, fussy eating issues etc.
Dr Google and social media ( (MN is one of the WORST culprits) sees people diagnosing themselves and others with completely random rare conditions before demanding a GP appointment to DEMAND the investigations they’ve been told to demand.
If you’ve never worked in primary care you really can’t comment on the phenomenal waste and pressure that is being caused by inappropriate use of finite services.
This obviously has a knock on effect on emergency care.

How many trips to A&E are we talking @cutrtain

Is there anyone else (child's dad) who can help? I know poorly kids tend to prefer mummy.

How old is child? I think GP's tend to offer more leeway with older DC in terms of sending them to A&E.

Are any of the issues that get you sent to A&E recurring? IE does a cough always result in A&E? If so could you discuss a preventer with the GP?

Do you double dose for high temps?

A&E is rarely going to be a short trip. We were in last week and it was amazingly empty so we were triaged immediately and seen by a Dr within 30 minutes. However we were still there for 6 hours as DC had breathing issues and they needed to check she could go 4+ hours without medication before they decided to admit us or discharge us (thankfully it was the latter). It was a long exhausting day - we had been up all the night before and at the GP's for an hour before being sent to A&E - I think a 3/4 hour wait to even be seen would have be unbearable so I feel your pain (and yes I had to miss work!)

Triage in A and E will identify those who need to be seen quickly and those who can wait. The depts are always full so anyone who can wait, will. The staff obviously prioritise those patients who need to be managed urgently. Triaging does not automatically mean that the staff think you need to be in A and E! They can arrange an ooh gp appt for you if that is deemed appropriate but what they can’t do is tell you to leave and call 111 etc. So if there is no ooh appts, you have to be seen by A and E staff. That’s just how it works.

A&E waiting times are bad, agreed. But I'm surprised what a big part of you life it is? I've literally never been to A&E in my life! Two kids aged early 20s.

It's not 'bullshit' unfortunately.

This was the first hit on q quick database search:
From the Department of Primary Care and Public Health, Imperial College London. A systemic review (about the highest standard/quality) of research you can get on evidence regarding reducing inappropriate accident and emergency department attendances. It was from 2011 though, I wonder if it's got better or worse since then....

"Inappropriate attendances may account for up to 40% of all presentations at accident and emergency (A&E) departments. Policy has focused on redirecting patients to more appropriate forms of care."

There is a lot of research and planning going into how to stop so many people from going to A&E when it's just not necessary for minor ailments. One thing that seems to be fairly unanimously agreed on is that the system as it is currently not providing the standard of care we hope for. With attendances increasing by about 2% every year on average I'm not sure there's ever going to be a policy change that actually continually increases capacity to keep of with this demand for all of us.

We're heading towards more privatisation and two tiered levels of service so that those with cash have the top notch service you'd expect, and those without will just wait ever increasingly longer for worsening levels of service.