I'm so fucking sick of a and e wait times

[cutrtain]

As a working mother to a toddler in nursery, I'm just fucking done with how long it takes to get help in a and e for my child.

It's starting to make me not want to go, in situations that I would have maybe gone in the past.

I'm absolutely exhausted. It's always 3/4 hours wait, at least.

I'm just so done with it. It's a disgrace.

The Americans I know in London & elsewhere overseas, have their, own dedicated, paediatricians on speed dial. They clamour over getting the very best & were aghast this was an alien concept to UK colleagues. They have no issues with babies, it’s routine & essentially preventative.

As for GP & A&E, it’s instant, pretty much & everything works. Meanwhile popular meds are out of stock in my local pharmacy & a scramble & ring around ensues. There has to be a better way.

What I said was "Fevers are protective, it's irrelevant if they 'come down' or not. Sure if a child has a constant fever for other 5 days they should be reviewed in GP but it's pretty rare they persist that long and anecdotally most I see presenting it's 1-3 days intermittent fever and just not something in itself that is concerning." + attached a link for a good source to help parents assess their unwell child.

I'd still argue this is correct, if a child looks well to me, has a short hx of usual symptoms, is E+D, PU+BO, no red flags but has a fever of say 39C and parent reports been giving paracetamol + ibu all day but fever still present I'm not suddenly concerned about them sending them upto AMU for review. It's going to be the same advice provided as if the temp had dropped after some paracetamol.

Likewise if a child is uninterested, breathing too quickly, not drinking/pu for a decent amount of time I'm concerned and couldn't care less whether their temp came down with paracetamol or not. The fact that NICE guidance still says don't give antipryetics for fever even if the child is having febrile convulsions, that antipryetics aren't part of sepsis management is quite telling in this regard.

I know the American system is often shrugged away in disgust and used as an example for how we should be so greatful for how our own NHS is, not only shocking, but shocking and FREE. However I can’t help but envy the quality of healthcare abroad

I'm still of the opinion that until we fix GP provisions then ED and the ambulance service are going to be under a huge amount of pressure mopping up what could be treated in the community.

I know some areas do offer the service but there needs to be a national 7 day service for GP surgeries.
Nothing else in health stops of a weekend/overnight and until we recognise and act accordingly that the GP service needs to be the same then nothing will change.
In my old trust you could have an outpatient CT scan at 10pm and all weekend
But you can't see a gp after 7...
It's crazy

What has your being a working mother go to do with it? Sorry if I am missing a very obvious point

The "very obvious point" is that she has to "present" at work from 9 - 5 I guess. And be on the ball. Not easy if spending half your time at A&E.

And I'm sorry OP you are going through this. Is your local GP service this crap that they offload to A&E? That's awful.

@SleepyRich

I understand what you're saying and as a medical I know what to look for.
But you can't expect a teacher/hairdresser/retail worker to make those kind of calls.
A child with said fever
Difficulty breathing might look very different to you and I
But to the parents who aren't medically trained they need the health service.
Not be scared to ask for help for a fever that's they're worried about because of something they've read on mumsnet.

It isn’t the parents job to assess an unwell child if they have no medical training. I don’t know what the difference in symptoms between a virus, bacterial infection or something life threatening, and neither do the average members of the public. That’s why we have doctors, nurses, first responders.
No one without medical training in a potentially serious situation should be left to assess their own child. Thats how accidents and missed symptoms happen.

Editing to add - by this I don’t mean, don’t assess your child’s runny nose and sneezing because something could happen.
I mean in a situation such as a raging temp, rashes, unexplained bleeding

How often are you in A&E though if you say your job is actually suffering because of your tiredness? I mean, that makes it sound as if you are there at least several times a month?

Oh absolutely! I cannot stand it when I see in my appointments for the day 1100 telephone callback for 3yr old breathing problems - if the parents actually think there's a problem breathing why on earth has it been requested and accepted as a callback and not a face to face!?!?!

I think the call takers in EOC not being allowed to question the veracity of the caller and just write down/click answers to what they say is just the defensive mechanism of they system really, knowing that people will suffer for it but it puts it as a systemic wider problem not a face that can be pointed at.

If demand is really high, and you just code pretty much everyone as cat 2 (immediately life threatening calls), meaning we don't get to a meningitic child for x hours and they die due to the delay nobody gets in trouble at all. "yes it's unfortunate the child died, we recognised that they were in a life threatening situation and coded them as such, there was overwhelming demand that prevented us getting there in time" - there's a behind the scenes review confirming that yes this was the case it was just held up in a queue of cat2 jobs (they don't look or care whether these cat2s were also unwell/correctly triaged- 1/3 of cat2 calls are discharged at scene by a paramedic without any treatment).

Where as if you work in the call centre downgrading/cancelling calls every day of your career it's only a matter of time before a mistake is made, perhaps not even a mistake just a child suddenly and very unexpectedly goes from minor illness symptoms to big sick in a way that could have been missed in a f2f - now you've potentially got to justify in court why you told the family they had to make own way or that they should see GP in the morning.... now you in a bad situation.

There is fever and fever though isn’t there. some children seem to cope pretty well with fevers (my first is one). My second as a baby had some really nasty infections that she didn’t manage well with and uncontrollable fever was the sign something wasn’t right alongside other symptoms.

There have been a few times with one of mine that the staff in paeds have been concerned with the fever itself and getting it under control. Had an episode of a fever of 41 once and they were primarily treating to get temp down and they were shocked it had gone so high.

@cutrtain

It's starting to make me not want to go, in situations that I would have maybe gone in the past.

If you can just choose not to go, I'd suggest you might not have needed to go in the first place.

Everything is long at the minute
2.5hrs wait in local blood clinics, I take a day off work every 10-12 weeks to have mine done. Clinic is often full 15 mins after opening so I have to drive to another
A years wait to be seen by a consultant for suspected stage 4 endometriosis

It’s not a child, but I was in A and E for a ruptured appendix- and I waited 22 hours in an and e in a chair! They were giving me morphine in a chair in the waiting room. It’s not ideal but it’s the demand and lack of GP appts.

My daughter dislocated her elbow and I didn't know you could even do that. If I'd had my way she wouldn't have gone to A&E I hate it that much. If it's pre 8pm I'd even take a suspected brake to minors now. I dont think A&E is fit for purpose

I would absolutely love a 3-4 hour wait at A&E. I've never waited less than 6 (and this is for more than a decade). And this is for stuff that required lengthy admissions and even surgery.

It is difficult and frustrating yes. Especially if you have to do it many times.

How can breathing difficulties not be accident and emergency?? You lot are bonkers. My dd went to an and e as a child with breathing difficulties and was admitted for two nights. First signs they had asthma. Needed nebuliser, steroids etc and observation. What a weird thing to say about a young child with breathing difficulties. Sorry, just happened to pick your post to reply to but obviously I am responding to all adults who have suggested you don’t take a child to an and e with breathing difficulty!! Obviously there are different levels of breathing difficulties and you don’t know what level op’s child was experiencing but I know for sure that my child would have been in trouble if they hadn’t been admitted to a and e.

Loving the number of posters announcing how few times they or their children have had to go to a&e over the years. Such an odd flex but so Mumsnet it hurts 🤣

Seriously OP, the wait times do suck and the system is very much fucked. And yes, when it comes to children, GP and 111 will always err on the side of caution and send you to a&e. They always have.

My dad spent all of Christmas last year on a trolley in a&e after a fall at home resulting in a catastrophic break. 6 hour ambulance wait (with no pain relief), 14 hours wait to see the doctor initially and 4 days wait for a bed on a ward. Fuck sake.

YANBU at all. A couple of years ago I waited for 5 hours wirth a fresh newborn (4 days old), was sent there by the HV who said she was dehydrated and should be seen straight away. I just had a section and it was uter hell. In the end they did nothing and said my HV was crazy. When she was 28 days old I was sent there again by another HV because she wasn’t gaining weight (EBF until that point) and they couldn’t tell me how often and how much I should complement with formula without her being assessed (???). I was made to wait for 9 hours without food or baby changing facilities and a screaming hungry baby, it was hard to leave or have DH to bring stuff because of COVID restrictions, I had to make a scene so that he could come in and bring me a fucking chocolate before I passed out! in the end they just checked her briefly and told me to give her 40ml after every brestfeed. Heathcare is honestly appaling in the UK, I come from a country still in development and people cannot believe the level of care (or lack of) we receive here. Since this inccident (and many others) it has put me off of taking my toddler to a&e or the GP because it is just a waste of my time, google is better than the NHS unfortunately. Unless she is literally dying before me I won’t bother taking her again.

I really think you are going there unnecessarily. 3 children and we have only been a few times. poisonous spider bite (I’m in Australia), appendicitis, broken leg and pneumonia.

I understand that people/children with chronic or complex conditions will be there more often. But the average person shouldn’t be there very often.

111 will err on the side of caution and tell you to go to A&E I tried getting an out of hours dr appointment for tonsillitis once they made me wait for an ambulance claiming it was meningitis (didn't send me to a&e which would have been faster) I tried to argue they threatened me with reporting me for medical neglect to children's services so I waited and sure enough six hours later an ambulance shows up its tonsillitis I need to see an out if hours dr they managed to get me an appointment at 6am

Never get sick on a weekend

Out of Hours GPs are available all through the night. I agree with others that all of those conditions should be seen by an out pf hours GP, not A &E (with possibly the exception of breathlessness). Recently had to call 111 for my DD, was seen by a out of hours GP within an hour.

Waiting time
Not wait time. Unless you are speaking American

Exactly, and the OP is actually being asked to go to A&E by the GP.

Worried someone will take what these other posters have said to heart and not take a toddler to A&E when they have meningitis.

Out of hours GP can be totally crap or a big wait for them also. One told DH he could wait to see the GP in the morning. He had peritonitis and sepsis- really glad I insisted that we went to A&E.

111 sent me and my 4-month-old straight to the OOH GP one night. Got there around 10:40pm. Was eventually seen around 2:30am.

It wasn't much better than a&e in terms of waiting times.

Yes, quite.

And I'm so glad we have a minor injuries unit. We haven't had many trips to A&E but a few to there to see if something is broken.