Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why they would reduce staff ?

40 replies

VioletSkies12 · 12/12/2023 12:49

I read an article about a nursery concerned about the new funding rules coming into place. One manager said that she would have to cut staff members hours down . Why would this be the case if they are expecting to get more kids ?

OP posts:
Danikm151 · 12/12/2023 12:52

They won’t be able to afford to pay the staff for full time hours I think.
hire more people on part time wages that’s less pension and NI costs.

Octavia64 · 12/12/2023 12:54

They will have less money. The funded hours are funded at a very low rate, and many nurseries will have less money as a result.

Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter · 12/12/2023 12:56

Maybe the new funding rules mean they are unable to pay all of the existing staff members going forward?

Thehop · 12/12/2023 12:58

The funding rates is below the normal rate. If too many children in a nursery are funded then the nursery will close, hence the number of childcare places on the country falling week after week.

arethereanyleftatall · 12/12/2023 12:58

Because they can't afford to pay them...

Curlywurlycaz2 · 12/12/2023 12:59

It probably costs a nursery about £20 per hour to care for a child by the time you factor in staff wages, rent, heating etc.

The government pays a nursery about £5 per hour for the funded places.

That is why. They want nurseries to operate at a loss.

furtivetussling · 12/12/2023 12:59

NMW is going up soon too, and will include younger workers at the full rate for the first time.

LolaSmiles · 12/12/2023 13:02

The government decisions are being made based on what sounds good approaching a general election.

Their plans for staffing and ratios are to effectively babysit young children to get more people to work, not provide high quality early years provision.

They're not bothered if it affects provision, or if smaller businesses go bust. They'll shrug their shoulders and say that they did their best.

SisterMichaelsHabit · 12/12/2023 13:05

Nurseries' hands are really tied, they're not allowed to charge more money to top up the shit hourly rate they currently get.

I wonder if it would be possible within the current law for nurseries to implement a tipping system so those of us who could afford an extra bit (but who would greatly benefit from subsidised childcare) could offer them a bit more to help them stay afloat. But then I don't think they could legally pay staff wages with it. There must be some middle ground between "£0 at point of service" (plus food) and "£10 an hour at point of service." I just want a middle ground. When we lived in Ireland, the free childcare covered €4.32 per hour per child, it was means tested for the number of hours you qualified for (up to 45 hours), and nurseries set their own rates so if you needed to top it up, you needed to top it up.

It's criminal how nurseries in the UK are being shafted by the government.

Original poster
VioletSkies12 · 12/12/2023 13:07

I guess it would be the unqualified or apprentices whose hours would be cut . Legally they still have to have a level three in each room although I can see that changing too.

OP posts:
WonderLife · 12/12/2023 13:10

Lots of nurseries are operating on 1:4 for toddlers, or having an extra member of staff available for children with SEN or to cover staff absence.
As the funding won't cover this they will go to minimum levels, 1:5 etc.

RocketPanda · 12/12/2023 13:11

A lot of Nurseries will either close or cut places and staff. There's not going to be enough places for all the children entitled to them.

Mumof2teens79 · 12/12/2023 13:13

They won't necessarily have more kids.
Most settings will have the same children but those children will be getting partial government funding from a younger age....and that funding is less than the going rate, so income will be lower.

The more staff you have/more places the bigger the gap. So less kids, fewer staff, make less of a loss

Is it still the case that settings can't refuse funded places, or insist on full time/top up? That also creates a big difference between costs and income as they have empty spaces fid part days/weeks they can't fill as they are awkward times.

ActDottie · 12/12/2023 13:16

I think as well because the government has also proposed changes to ratios of adults to children meaning they can have the same number of kids but fewer adults.

Peablockfeathers · 12/12/2023 13:17

There's not going to be enough places for all the children entitled to them.

Pretty much this. They'll still have to adhere to ratios but if it means they have to reduce the number of children because it actually is more economically viable then they will. Its a poorly thought out initiative which sounds good but the sector is under so much strain as it is its just going to cause mayhem. More closures, further cuts to places etc. I think lots of people are going to be unpleasantly surprised when they realise that although they're 'entitled' to the funded hours they'll have nowhere to use them.

Peablockfeathers · 12/12/2023 13:20

Is it still the case that settings can't refuse funded places, or insist on full time/top up?

Settings don't have to offer funded places, to be honest with supply and demand it wouldn't surprise me if more and more don't. Currently and historically they have because even though some have wait lists they are competing still with others who do offer it; it'll only take 1 or 2 in some areas where places are scarce anyway though for other to follow suite as people become more desperate for childcare. It's a policy that will probably actually make childcare more expensive for many. If they do offer funded hours then no they can't charge a top up just for top ups sake, it has to be for certain things ie nappies, meals etc. At the end of the day it's still a charge.

daffodilandtulip · 12/12/2023 13:22

Nurseries work on floor space, as well as ratios. They can't necessarily just have loads more kids because more people want to use the "free" hours.

KeyboardMash · 12/12/2023 13:23

The government, quite wilfully, pays nurseries an hourly rate that is less than what it actually costs them to run. So they are essentially underpaid for those free hours. If the free hours are expanded they'll have to cut costs.

WaitingfortheTardis · 12/12/2023 13:26

The result of a shoddy government trying to bribe people into voting for them. The funding for the 'free hours' means the policy is unsustainable. Many nurseries have had to close as a result.

oneflewoverthe · 12/12/2023 13:26

The government don't pay childcare settings enough per hour to run properly. No one fee some settings don't take funded hours. Many places including my childminder add on "sundries" so the parents have to make up the difference. I'm happy to pay it to keep my lovely childminder in a job.

oneflewoverthe · 12/12/2023 13:27

No wonder some settings don't take funded hours*

TrashedSofa · 12/12/2023 13:28

Peablockfeathers · 12/12/2023 13:17

There's not going to be enough places for all the children entitled to them.

Pretty much this. They'll still have to adhere to ratios but if it means they have to reduce the number of children because it actually is more economically viable then they will. Its a poorly thought out initiative which sounds good but the sector is under so much strain as it is its just going to cause mayhem. More closures, further cuts to places etc. I think lots of people are going to be unpleasantly surprised when they realise that although they're 'entitled' to the funded hours they'll have nowhere to use them.

Yep. It'll be like people who are eligible for free NHS dentistry. If you can get one, you won't pay, but there might just be nothing available.

KateyCuckoo · 12/12/2023 13:32

So please don't complain when your nursery or childminder tells you your free hours aren't actually free, it's the government who are lying not settings.

RubaiyatOfAnyone · 12/12/2023 13:34

So say it costs £100 per hr for the nursery to run (rent, council tax, heating, lights, staff wages, food, equipment).

to make this the nursery charges £10 per hr for 10 kids.
the government propose to pay £3 per hr for each of those kids and tell parents it’s “free!”.

the nursery now has £30 rather than £100. It has to make cuts somewhere, and rent/tax/utilities are non negotiable. so staff cuts.

Thefaceofboe · 12/12/2023 13:35

The result of a shoddy government trying to bribe people into voting for them. The funding for the 'free hours' means the policy is unsustainable. Many nurseries have had to close as a result

Absolutely this!! Total shambles