To think dentists just count teeth at an nhs checkup?

[Oucht]

After the checkup I had yesterday - told something was looking ok just for the pain to become agonising during the day.. it got me thinking that NHS checkup is merely counting teeth. Is that the same for everyone who has an NHS dentist?

The teeth are not checked for problems unless you mention them. I said an old filling was catching food.. turns out the tooth next to it needs a filling.

The one that's hurting at the back.. second in molar.. is next to a large filling where I have bone loss which has always been a bit achey.. dentist said that all looked fine.. pain got worse.. now I'm having to go back tomorrow because when I look with a mirror at the back of my tooth it has a big crack through it.

Ours still.do. And xrays

I go privately. The actual check isn't much more than 5mins. Looks round mouth for skin problems, feels in the angle of my jaws. Does the “tooth count” - if the tooth in question is OK, she just gives the number, otherwise she may say ‘7 buccal watch” or similar.

The gum prodder is actually a gauge with measurements on it. She’s measuring the gap between tooth and gum.

Then a couple of quick questions to check how I’m cleaning my teeth and that’s it.

I think the only thing you may be missing out on is advice on cleaning.

She doesn't give me advice on cleaning because she knows I brush 3 times a day, floss and use a waterpik.
I was on oestrogen blocking medication for 20 years... women get free dental care during pregnancy because of the hormone change.. I was in that state hormonally for 20 years instead of 9 months.

My teeth and bones are paying for it.
I guess I just have to wait and see what they say tomorrow.
Very sick of being in pain.. multiple health conditions and on strong pain killers so when a tooth hurts me, I know something is wrong because the the tramadol and morphine are not numbing it.

Sounds like you just have a crap dentist to be honest! My NHS dentist is an absolute dream, I have had endless problems with my teeth and suffer with huge dentist anxiety so struggle to articulate what's bothering me and tend to downplay the pain I'm in. He's always very thorough, kind, gentle and informative. He's squeezed me in right before Christmas last year with a broken tooth, done X-rays just because I was anxious about something (which turned out to be nothing), always takes his time etc.

NHS dentists seem to be like gold dust at the moment, and good ones even rarer. I will cling to mine with a death grip, my husband has joked that if it came to a choice between him and the dentist, I'd keep the dentist!

They should always feel along your jawline and look under your tongue for signs of mouth/neck cancer - that’s what I had at my last appointment. And not counting teeth but checking which are present/whether there is decay, also noting gum health.

scale/polish seems to have stopped but they are doing the important things.

Our nhs dentist always does a scale and polish and periodic x rays. I feel my teeth are well cared for by them as do my whole family, both sets of parents and some of the siblings also go there. We live 12 miles from there now but won’t change as they’re so good and it’s so hard to get an nhs dentist these days. Both DH and I have been going there since childhood.

I went to the dentist recently, after not having a check-up for 2 years. The dentist asked me a few questions (I haven't had toothache or any problems), counted my teeth, said all is fine and she'll see me in a year. I asked if they do a scrape and polish or if that'd be extra. "Oh, we can do that now, if you like", she said - and she did, but I had to ask for that. £25.70 in total, for 5 minutes "work". They're making a fortune.

I see an NHS dentist and no, they don't just count your teeth. They also check for visible issues (not just to your teeth; they also look at your mouth and tongue and will tell you if they see anything that looks like it needs further investigation for possible mouth cancer etc). I have two fillings and they were both done after my dentist spotted the first signs of decay during routine check-ups.

As I've said I work in dentistry and have in the past worked in NHS dentistry as a dental nurse. I am the first to admit there are terrible dentists out there not doing their job properly. I've seen it with my own eyes and some of them should not be practicing.
But i do just want to say that in SOME cases (not all) peoples version of 5 mins is very off.
Even now as a Hygienist I have people telling me that the previous Hygienist they saw only cleaned their teeth for 5 minutes. But they have forgotten that I was their previous Hygienist and I most certainly did not only spend 5 mins. The quickest I can manage cleaning someone's full mouth is 15 mins. And that's because I either have to rush because they've arrived late or something. Unless the person has 3 teeth left its impossible to do it in 5 mins.
I cannot comment on what an individual dentist has or has not done obviously. Just that what people experience as 5 mins is often inaccurate and its been more like 15.
NHS check ups are usually booked for 15 mins in a busy practice. (30 if the dentist is generous). But in that 15 mins it includes checking your medical history and asking if you have any issues. Charting what teeth you have and any issues. Taking an x ray if required. Then treatment planning anything and possibly a scale and polish if clinically necessary. As well as cleaning up the surgery after. That's actually a lot to do in 15 mins.
Do some dentists skip lots of this? I'm sure they do. And they shouldn't.
The other issue is scale and polish. Under band one these days it's only if clinically necessary. So removing some tea staining for example they do not have to do.
What I do find a lot is dentists telling patients to see the Hygienist as they have gum disease or lots of plaque. This they should not be doing. If they have gum disease or lots of plaque meaning the patient cannot clean well then this should be offered under the NHS as it IS clinically necessary.

YANBU. I asked my dentist if he could scrape a bit of stubborn plaque off. He said you’ll need to pay for that as you “only get the basic clean on the NHS”.

I said but if I’m supposed to get a basic clean on the NHS how come I never get any clean at all at these check ups?

He looked guilty and grudgingly scraped off the plaque but yanbu.

I go to the dentist with my 11 yr old son and I time the amount of time he gets in the chair at his NHS check up and it is definitely less than five minutes by my iPhone’s stopwatch.

Glad to hear that your practice is less stingy with its time.

I'm so sorry to heap a bit of bitterness onto your thread, but here goes, at least you have an nhs dentist 😪

to the PP saying “i wonder how much they got paid for that?” - the answer is barely anything. Dentists don’t get a salary from the NHS like most doctors do. They get paid a set, shitty amount for each NHS appointment. This amount is nothing compared to all the overheads they have, which is why most also take on private patients. It’s the private work that pays the bills, the wages etc, and means that they can still offer some form of NHS treatment, because god knows that without the private work, there would be zero chance of them making a wage.

People love to complain about dentists - if all they do is count teeth and get paid a shit load for doing it, there wouldn’t be a shortage of them now would there?

I had an NHS dentist who was wonderful. Each visit was as some pp described with their good dentists. Unfortunately, we had to move and I haven't found good enough NHS dentists ever since. Worse is that since Covid, it's been in and out like the OP and some pp have described.

I just mainly pay to go to the hygienist now. If she sees any problem, then I'll go for a checkup with the dentist. The dentist is awful, always in a hurry and distant, bordering on rude, but the hygienist is lovely.

They get paid a set, shitty amount for each NHS appointment.
...

It’s the private work that pays the bills, the wages etc, and means that they can still offer some form of NHS treatment, because god knows that without the private work, there would be zero chance of them making a wage.

You must be a dentist or related to one, judging by your entire post?

Anyway, the bolded is most likely why some of them are shit with NHS patients. I bet they aren't that way with private ones.

Mine checks every single tooth, along under the jaw up to the joint, scale & polish and yearly x-ray. He's the only decent nhs dentist I've met in my 37years.

At my last appointment they did a quick check of my teeth and gums and then asked if I had any problems. I said it felt like I had holes in 2 of my teeth and they asked where then agreed I had holes and needed fillings so can't have done a very good initial check! However, that will be my last nhs appointment as the practice is stopping nhs treatment in January so need to start saving so I can afford private treatment but won't be paying to see the same dentist that's for sure!

OK but either accept the fee and do a competent job or dont accept it at all - that's unethical. My last nhs dentist didn't do enough to justify even a shitty fee. Prior to 2010 though I had years of good NHS dental treatment.

The pain is unbearable right now.
I know tomorrow if they agree something needs doing ... which it does.. hubby has looked and can clearly see the tooth is cracked all the way through the back.. that I am going to have to wait until the new year at least.

Mine calls out numbers, then checks gums, then gives me a scale and polish and an occasional X-ray. If they don't offer a scale and polish I ask for one. It's NHS dentist but DH and I pay. FS is 17 so still free but I have noticed he's in and out in about 1-2 minutes.

Mine too.

No xrays here, or cleaning, or checking the jaw or under the tongue. Only looking at certain teeth if mentioned that something is wrong...
9am yesterday it didn't hurt and now it's agony. They're gonna think I'm crazy despite the huge crack they can't miss... again.

@Tacotortoise I’m not excusing shitty dentists. There are shit dentists who charge private fees and there are shit dentists who take on NHS contracts. neither of those things are okay. my point was that i don’t think people realise how dentists are paid. and it’s comments / patients’ attitudes like “they get paid to count teeth” that mean that lots of dentists retire very early. fewer dentists = fewer nhs dentists.

Obviously the dentist doesn't just count teeth. The number of your teeth is unlikely to change check up to check up, you call it the number of the tooth once you have examined it so the nurse knows where you are on the exam

Also a 'huge crack' doesn't mean anything. Could be a deep fissure, could be staining. Could be cracked that's perfectly fine to leave.

The £25.70 doesn't go to the dentist, it goes straight back into the NHS. The NHS sells a contract to the practice to carry out a certain amount of work and pays the practice a lump sum to carry out that amount of worm. The dentist will get paid per unit of work, this fee is set by the practice and is different dentist to dentist but is no where near £25.70

Patients fees don't go to the practice.

For a scale and polish and a proper check up £25.70 is a bargain. If your scale and polish took less than 5 minutes you didn't need it, and the dentist was essentially doing you a favour.