AIBU to think that I can push can back on this at work?

[WorkIsGettingtoMe]

I've posted here for traffic.

Whenever my colleagues and I raise a valid concern at work e.g. unpaid overtime, late nights, working conditions, we are told by the line manager, and the manager above them that;

If we don't like it we can leave
We don't have to work here, there are plenty of other people who will (there aren't!)
No one is forcing us to work there

Of course I don't have to work there, and I am looking for another job!

I'm quite sick of being told this, and so I would like to know where I stand HR wise and what I am within my right to say to whoever is saying this to me.

I feel like it is a threat to my employment. Something to shut us up. It's not even passive aggressive, it is more than that.

So, can I push back on this at work? Is it more than just unprofessional. It's not quite constructive dismissal, but I feel that if a when I finally bring this up, before I explode, I want to have my facts right about what these comments are.

How long have you worked there and are you in England?

Do you have a contract? That's what you have to to do. Anything else is your choice. Beware there may be a clause saying " and any reasonable management instructions"

Depends on whether what you are being asked to do is against the law. Eg are you being paid less than minimum wage?

Well this, basically.

If it’s against the law then you could say it’s detrimental treatment for asserting a statutory right.

If it isn’t and it’s just a gripe, your manager could be right (although it’s rather unprofessional to phrase it in that way).

If it bothers you though you could raise a formal grievance. Just be aware that if you have less than two years service, they could sack you as a result (unless you were asserting a relevant statutory right in the grievance)

Worked there 5 years and yes in England.

It is things outside our contract. It is things that are not safe e.g. we don't have the equipment to do these things and someone could get hurt. It is being asked to do things because they are too tight to hire anyone else.

If anyone raises a concern then they are told "if you don't like it you can leave". Yes it is very unprofessional and I have to say, not the way to get staff motivated, but it feels more than that.

When it is said to me, I feel that my financial stability and mental health is threatened. That may sound dramatic, but in all the years I have worked, I have never been spoken to like this.

You could contact ACAS. They might give you some useful advice.

When I had this years ago I bluffed them and agreed for them to waive my notice period, and just left on the spot when they confirmed it was allowed.

If it's a health and safety issue then that feels different.

Health and safety inspections are largely toothless but if someone gets injured or dies as a result there could be repercussions.

If it is a h and s issue you could try saying - I'm just trying to save you all the hassle that will happen when someone gets injured.

Why have you stayed 5 years if its so bad?

Have you got a union or professional body? There are unions covering almost every occupation out there.

If you are in a union, talk to them. If you are not, talk to ACAS (and consider joining a union).

One of the rules I have with work is that if a manager every says to me "if you don't like it here, then leave" - I dust off the CV and get applying. I left my previous job for that reason.

Get job hunting in the new year. The environment is toxic, you have two managers who think they know everything and don't want to do the hard work of getting investment agreed to sort out the issues you raise. I would suggest you and other colleagues call their bluff and go out there and get other jobs. They won't learn but if you have a new job why should you care?

I don’t know much about employment rules/laws etc but if there is a standard they are not meeting or law then you could just reply each time saying “or you could just meet the government standard for health and safety”. It might highlight how unreasonable they are being and their responsibilities as an employer

This is exactly what unions are for.

Why don't you ask HR where you stand HR-wise?

Yes, I’ve been there 5 years, but before this recent line manager we had a very reasonable one. The one above them has always been a knob, but our previous manager handled them.

Yes, I will be looking for a new job in the new year. I resent having to change jobs because of unprofessional people, but will be doing so.

I feel like it’s a form of bullying. I need to work and can’t just walk out, or leave without something to go to. I’ve never felt this stressed out in a job before. It’s toxic.

I will talk to ACAS.

@WorkIsGettingtoMe

Get job hunting in the new year. The environment is toxic, you have two managers who think they know everything and don't want to do the hard work of getting investment agreed to sort out the issues you raise. I would suggest you and other colleagues call their bluff and go out there and get other jobs. They won't learn but if you have a new job why should you care?

As well as writing to HR (particularly about the Health & Safety issues and the policy around those) and, more importantly to ACAS, perhaps consider "quiet quitting" - where you do the job you are paid for and perhaps, to protect yourself a very small amount of time daily over and above your contract hours so they cannot say you're not putting the effort in. Do you belong to a union? If you do, do talk to your union representative ASAP.

Ensure your interactions with your manager is very clear and in writing especially around the H&S issues (perhaps copy in HR) and blind carbon copy (bcc) to your personal email address in case you need an audit trail later. 🌹

You can absolutely push back if you are being asked to do something that is dangerous (assuming that it really is dangerous).