To be so sad about my slide in living standards?

[ColdNow]

I grew up in a not so nice area, but my parents had a big house with a huge garden that they bought on two fairly modest salaries when they were younger than I am now. My mum took years out of work when I was born and although things like holidays and eating out weren't a regular occurrence, my parents admit they were never really stressed about money despite having several children and easily paid off their mortgage.

Fast forward to now, where I did my very best to do the 'right' things. I got a good degree, decent and stable job, married and bought a property before TTC. I'm now pregnant and feeling so sad about our financial situation. We purposely went for a modest property with a tiny garden to give ourselves a buffer, but now with the huge increase in our mortgage repayments and other expenses we're struggling to keep afloat. I would love to work part time when I go back but it's now looking very unlikely that we'll be able to make it work without being extremely stretched. I'm always worried about money and already buy all my clothes second hand, shop at budget supermarkets etc. The main cost is housing though, because we live in an expensive city, but this is the city I grew up in and where all my family and friends are, and moving away would be a very difficult choice to make and remove us from all our support networks.

I just feel so sad that within a generation the things my parents were able to offer me (space, time) I'm not able to offer my child, despite me earning far more comparatively than they did. I'm also the youngest in my family and the older siblings are much better off than me, again just because of time - they got onto the property market much earlier before prices sky-rocketed and now although I don't earn a lot less than them, I'm only just scraping by. I notice this at work too, I have colleagues at the same level of seniority and pay to me but a decade or more older, and the houses and lifestyle they sustain far exceed mine.

I don't know what the purpose of this thread is except to just say that it makes me sad that this is the situation I'm in, and people younger than me (I'm in my early 30s) are even worse off.

We need more senior flats in areas close to the suburbs, to encourage older people to move.

Wanting to live in the EXACT same neighborhood could be a stretch, though; if you live in a car dependent area, you need to think about what's going to happen if you lose the ability to drive.

Putting elderly people in flats is the worst things you could do to them . There mobility is going to inevitably going to go downhill . Old people need the outside world at their front door as it's just going to be made harder to connect to outside world . That really is not the answer .

Exactly this. No-one has to move from the home they have worked for and lived in until they are good and ready. My mother loves her huge garden and it is her happy place. She'll move when she's ready, or it will go on the market when my parents no longer need it due to death. They don't owe their home to a young family. It still serves their needs and brings them joy.

My mother has lost her ability to drive and so values her huge garden to potter in all the more. She also values the community of people around her. Why would she want to move to a flat just because she's elderly?

Is she somewhere with a decent bus route, though? Or if not, are you OK with driving her about to appointments and shopping and so on? Or does she have a lot of money to pay for taxis and hired drivers?

Obviously, some people age in place and that's fine if the general circumstances of this work for them, but I have a couple of friends who have elderly parents living at a distances who can't drive any more. Neighbors give lifts for a bit, sometimes, then they start to get annoyed at the burden on their time. Adult children may feel the need to take time off work to help out. It can create real issues.

Not at all, no good public transport, quite remote - but that doesn't matter. They're in their 70s, they have a good and close community around them, so they are fine in their limited local area. They have a lot of social groups and friends around them. They don't need to go far.

Why should they move from their support networks and social networks and an environment they enjoy and have built? I find the attitude that older people should be encouraged to move into flats to free up their homes quite disgusting. It's fine if they decide their property is no longer working for them on their own, then they can look at and decide on options. We don't decide older people and their wants for their life are worth nothing, and put them out of the way into boxes. That's really quite sickening. (Not specifically responding to you here, just the general attitude of entitlement to older people's homes some people have expressed, because they want them for themselves).

IF they are not coping and able to manage their affairs where they are, then discussions can be had.

I find the attitude that older people should be encouraged to move into flats to free up their homes quite disgusting.

Why? If they don't want to move, they don't have to. It's not North Korea; we don't forcibly take people's homes from them if they don't want to move. Being DISGUSTED at another person merely expressing an opinion is a bit strong.

There are some on this thread and others who think old people should be forced to downsize to make way for families. I hope they think about their statements when they are older.

There's also the fact that a lot of purpose built retirement properties are rip-offs price wise and end up being difficult to sell. Two of our friends sold their house in Kent and bought (for quite a lot of money) a place in a retirement village in the West country. It's like one of those holiday home type places that's one step up from a mobile home. Tiny.Everyone around them thinks they're crazy and is waiting to see how they feel about it in a few years time.

I do think that a lot of the problems with housing is that somewhere in the 80s housing started to be looked at as an investment instead of a place to live. The whole buy to let thing went nuts and there were people with dozens of properties building an empire.
Quite often in our area house buyers are outbid by 'developers' who want to do it up and sell for a vast profit later.

Watch Living to 100, The Secrets of the Blue Zones. Very interesting on housing, family, community, and old folk.

Oh boy, a FB group I am on is currently chatting about that, and a load of members are going on about eating sweet potatoes as a way to live longer.

Sorry, but Okinawans have never lived longer than any other Japanese - load of hype. And it's currently the least healthy prefecture in Japan. Charming part of the world, though.

It IS true that connectivity is important for longevity (and general health).

Well it is a good investment as prices never fall thanks to immigration, foreign buyers.

The researcher does confirm this point about the decline of their health NOW, but he’s been researching this for 20 years, it’s not about today.

‘Never’, hmm not sure that’s true. The development at the end of our road has come off the market, not sold, no interest.

I’m sure insolvency data will emerge that shows lots of building companies going bust, including developers. Inflation has hit interest rates and it’s hitting this asset class hard.

There was probably never any longevity surplus in Okinawa, even back in the day.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v2.full

Okinawa (like Sardinia and Ikaria) is notable for being a poor and remote region that was very distant from central government for a long time. When that happens, you get a lot of age fraud/error. Sometimes old people in these poor areas didn't know their birth dates until recently, and birth certificates didn't come in till much later than in other more centralized and modern regions. This then leads to widespread inflation of people's claimed ages, not least because in poor and disproportionately rural areas where there are few good jobs, people have a strong motivation to try and obtain pensions (and other welfare benefits given to aged people) at earlier ages. In the case of Okinawa, Japan, the place was really poor and then got torn apart by the US in the 20th century - not surprisingly, reliable birth certificates did not become a thing until later than in the rest of Japan. Sardinia is the same story.

It's long been known that in all parts of the world, in the 19th and 20 centuries the number of people registered as living to over 100 drops sharply as soon as you get to the cohorts that have properly authenticated birth certificates. That's awfully telling! Take a look at the above link - it's well supported by data.

Okinawa is a very nice place but there is no proper evidence that people have ever lived longer than in other parts of Japan.

The Seven Day Adventist thing does appear to be genuine though.

I disagree too.
I wasn't forced to do move to a flat, we chose to do it because it made sense, moving area but are now very close to two of our children. We now live in a flat, in a convenient suburban area in greater London, with good transport and convenient NHS services (including a hospital and dentist). It isn't a ghetto for the over 50's but a large estate with a friendly mixed community, good parking, gardens and a large park next door. The whole place (including the heating system) is well maintained by a management company.
We didn't want to be stuck in a large house, struggling to maintain the fabric of the building and the garden.
Personally I think that older people should be encouraged (obviously not forced) to move into smaller properties: not necessarily flats, nor without gardens, before they are too old to make the move. I also think that, if people are too old to manage a move themselves (and have nobody to help) they could be offered help if they need it.
My MIL stayed in the family home far too long, it became a millstone around her neck. Public transport faded away and the corner shop closed, her friends, neighbours and "support network" sold or died, and she really struggled.

I agree with @beguilingeyes and @madaboutmad , it's not sensible to regard your home as just an investment, which did seem to happen in the 80's, when people bought a place, threw money at it and moved on. For many people their home is their only investment, and most know that your capital should be spread over different asset types and savings accounts. Why buy a home that is bigger than you need for more than you need to spend?
Round here many of the new purpose built flats are going to landlords or, more commonly, overseas investors. Those belonging to the latter are often left empty, waiting for a capital gain.

Although the developers don't want it know, there are still many unsold.

What did you take from this? I'm interested, but too time poor to sit down and watch it!

As to the need to be near services, particularly when elderly and losing the ability to drive for health reasons. Even the most beautiful home with poor or no public transport links and few services can feel like a prison with no car and being reliant on lifts and taxis.

YANBU
the cost of living crisis and lack of wealth redistribution is acute. Regional and even borough to borough inequality is acute too. Today, on a average, only if you come from a well off family will you be able to put a real deposit together through BOMAD or bits of inheritance - even going to UNI and education outcomes are mostly linked to what home you’re born into. All of it is very unfair- not really a land of equal opportunities

there are exceptions of course but tte averages paint a clear picture

the system works for the system, the banks and bankers and a few % at the top do very well.

The Gini index that shows the level of inequality between poorest and richest has grown massively in many countries over the past 20 years. So yes - a few haves, many have a little and many have almost nothing.
what’s interesting is that the U.K. was more unequal (by Ginny index) than many other European countries 30 years ago AND has become even more unequal as things got worse around the world, they got even worser in the U.K.
there are many political choices that have led us there
Exerting political agency is the only way to make society work better or more equal, and it will be a long road because the situation on so many fronts is dire

i Could have become British a long time ago but still haven’t - but seriously considering doing it now just so I can vote

• Eat healthily, mainly plant based foods. Lots of variety.
• Be part of a community, engage, help, laugh, and prioritise family and relationships above the stresses of other parts of life.
• Move - exercise is one thing but walk, hoover, garden, be active in your daily life
• Have purpose in life, work, volunteer, help, get off the sofa!

To be honest, everything we know already, but it was interesting.

A lot of developers are going bust at the moment.

I would like to live in a much bigger house than I do now, and I would want to live there until I really can't manage any more. But on the other hand there is something VERY wrong with a society where a lot of older people live as a couple or single person in a 4 or 5 bed detached house with large garden, whilst their kids try to bring up one to three kids in a two / three bed house or flat, quite possibly with no sort of garden. Keep pushing young people far enough and they will start voting for parties who have policies like 10 times normal council tax on large family houses occupied by one or two people.

No they won't. Part of the problem is that people like to whine but don't like to vote.

I agree. I did all the “right things” in terms of education and job but I don’t see us ever owning a house of our own.

Keep pushing young people far enough and they will start voting for parties who have policies like 10 times normal council tax on large family houses occupied by one or two people.

Which party would ever be stupid enough to introduce a policy like that? It’s taken long enough to get round to increased council tax on second homes. And still only a handful of councils are doing it.