To ask for your experiences of NLP/ re-wiring your brain?

[seriouslynonames]

I have always described myself as a 'worrier'. The last few years have been difficult with health problems and family challenges and I think my 'worry' has developed into anxiety. I have many physical symptoms which being anxious either causes, or exacerbates. I have never been diagnosed with anxiety and I am still having some physical symptoms investigated. I am also emetophobic which I think is a significant part of what makes me anxious, but not all of it.

My family circumstances aren't likely to improve significantly, if anything they are likely to become more challenging over the next few years (kids related stuff).

Over the last couple of years I have done a lot of reading and online learning (including through live sessions) about NLP and how I should, in theory, be able to re-wire my brain to think more constructively by reducing the negative neural pathways that I have developed over many years, and creating new, more helpful pathways. I would love to go from struggling to thriving, or at least move in the right direction!

I have tried and struggled to really embed new habits. I get the theory but struggle to apply it consistently in practice.
So I'm wondering if the wise people of Mumsnet have had any success with this kind of stuff, and how you made it work/stick with it?

Thanks for reading this far!

I learned a brilliant and very simple technique this year, called Thought Auditioning. First decide how you would be feeling and responding to situations in an ideal world. Really fix that ideal in your mind. Then, if a worry or negative attitude begins to take hold, just audition it for a role in your new way of thinking - does it fit or not? Don't judge it. Just decide if it fits the casting call. If it doesn't, buzz it off, like on BGT. If it comes back for a second try at auditioning, just buzz it off again. Not needed on this occasion. Doesn't fit this casting call. I love that this is a bit silly but also really useful. I use it as often as I can remember to.

You can't 're-wire your brain'. Don't hand over any money for NLP. I think NLP stands for No Longer Plausible (if it ever was). It's pseudo-scientific woo-woo bullshit.

In The Death of Psychotherapy, Donald A Eisner couldn’t find ‘one iota of clinical research’ to support NLP. This is in direct contradiction to the claims made by NLP practitioners. He also demolishes; Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy, Cathartic Therapies, Recovered Memory Therapies, Humanistic Psychotherapy, Behavioural and Cognitive Therapy, Strategic Family Systems Therapy, NLP, EFT, CBT, BCBT, DHE, EMDR, Gestalt Therapy, Implosion Therapy, Palm Therapy, Person Centred Therapy, Primal Therapy, Reframing, Thought Field Therapy, Direct Exposure Therapy, Spiritual Therapy and many others.

Also The Myth of Psychotherapy: Mental Healing As Religion, Rhetoric, and Repression by Thomas Stephen Szasz is similarly damning. His claim is that almost anyone can sit down with anyone else, have a chat, and call it psychotherapy. The practitioners are unaccredited, or self-accredited, and the theories scientifically unsubstantiated. It is the mutual exchange of myths.

Read a few books back in the day and tried to get into it. Ultimately I don't think it is as good as advertised, although there are some interesting insights which may work some of the time.

Also why do people that get into NLP think their ultimate goal is to be an NLP teacher. I had a work colleague that was heavily into NLP, he quit a fairly good job to be an self employed NLP teacher. A few years later he was struggling to get back into his original profession while doing casual work.

The only thing I did find consistently useful was writing down my goals every 6 months, to give me something to focus on.

I tried NLP by seeing an NLP therapist and reading lots of books.
It sounds amazing, you remove your negative thoughts and pattern and replace them with positive thoughts and patterns in a short time and all without experiencing the pain that caused the original negative beliefs.
It made absolutely no difference to me even though I tried very hard.

I have since been diagnosed with Complex PTSD and the only therapy that has had a major impact on this is psychotherapy.
Psychotherapy takes time, many,many months at least, probably years, maybe even longer in some cases.
It can be very painful and you will often feel worse while you are processing painful childhood experiences but genuine change can happen.

It's been overwhelmingly debunked as @ButterCupPie explained. It was a thing - back in the day - 80's-90's - sold a lot of books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

CBT can be helpful, but it requires challenging the negative thoughts, weighing up the evidence for and against etc - so its quite intensive to start. CBT has been proven to help with anxiety hence why it's used by the NHS.

The Speakmans book on anxiety might be useful for you that seems similar to NLP.

@tttigress

why do people that get into NLP think their ultimate goal is to be an NLP teacher?

That's how these woo-woo mind cults and motivational pyramid schemes work. Q: How do I fix my life with NLP? A: become a teacher and recruit gullible and/or vulnerable people, make £££! Or not, as your colleague found out.

I tried an NLP hypnotherapist. It worked for me with intrusive thoughts or intrusive memories in that it removed their emotional power and allowed me to observe them, sometimes in a changed way if necessary - like sped up set to Benny Hill music or with a different ending where I kicked ass - whatever changed the memory. No one ever has a problem with intrusive good memories.

By that time I had had a lot of therapy and none of it had worked - it always made me feel worse and the insistence on reliving re traumatised me and made me feel like a failure for not sticking with it to reach peace.

Now I just meditate. Allow bad thoughts but let them go, don't chase them.

So much 'acceptable' therapy seems to hinge on chasing bad thoughts.

It’s hokum. A lot of my colleagues thought it was the bees’ knees 25 years ago but really it was just another bandwagon to jump on.

Following for advice

NLP may not be any magic solution but it includes a lot of common sense that we don’t necessarily know before it’s demonstrated.

I found a few statements/principals really helpful

The map is not the territory- basically you only know what you know and there could be all sorts of influences on a situation that you aren’t aware of. Really useful when something makes no sense.

EveryOne is doing their best with the information and resources they have. (stops me taking disappointment personally)

There were others- something about the flexible person having the best outcome.

If you pick a useful one out that seems relevant to your situation, and repeat it regularly, you may find it reframes that problem.

That reframing is my most powerful tool.

I like this idea and think I will try it! Thanks

Our SALT (NHS) used it in a listening programme with dc to help with a language disorder and it worked a treat.

People can and do change, which I guess is a kind of rewiring of one's brain

You can use self hypnosis (or bought hypnosis audios) to reinforce good thoughts and reduce stress.

People can change and the brain is very plastic.

It's not that easy but it can be done.

I found NLP immensely helpful (with a very good NLP practitioner) as it was 'content free'. So I could engage with my emotions around a situation without having to re-tell and re-engage with the story.

There was a big level of change that enabled me to (later) engage in psychotherapy, something I couldn't have done otherwise.

But I don't think you can 'NLP' yourself from a book.

Isn't 'growth mindset', what they teach at schools, or is that 'hokum' too?

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions so far. I think what I have found helpful in learning about NLP type approaches are some probably quite basic tools (like reframing for example, as one PP said) that probably feature in other therapeutic or self-help approaches. So I probably need to pick out the bits that resonate most with me and leave the rest. The thing I think I struggle with is the habit building. I will try the audition approach suggested too! I have had some CBT in the recent ish past but I wasn't the biggest fan. But at the same time I absolutely do need to challenge my thoughts. I feel like I need someone to be able to hear my thoughts and pick me up on them, rather than having to pick myself up on them - I can't see the wood for the trees with so many years of the same thought patterns!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I want to feel that I can change - I need to believe that I can. And I'm not wedded to doing it a particular way, so I'm open to trying new things!

Years ago, I did an online CBT course called MoodGym, run by an Australian company. It was free at the time. You have to pay for it now, I think but it would be worth it. It was my first intro to CBT and I found it eye opening because my natural responses which I thought were 'normal' were way off. Having to do all those exercises really helped me spot my own thinking patterns. I didn't like them all. I felt a lot of them were silly and yet, decades later I still remember them and they help me pick myself up if I am using poor thought patterns.

You say you didn't get on with CBT but a well-designed self help course might be more useful. For me it did exactly what you say you need. It interrupted my thought patterns and really made me realise how destructive they were.

MoodGym

I think there's more potential in CBT and things like being mindful of one's thoughts - observing them in a non judgemental way.

I also think there's a lot to be gained by just replacing unhelpful habits with more positive ones. 'Atomic Habits' book is good for that.

Have you tried integrative counselling OP?

It's hokum too. To a large extent. I'm sure that there is some relationship between effort and outcomes. But I’ve seen a lot of people – good people who I have much in common with – write about the “growth mindset” in a way which is almost religious. Many take a line which seems to suggest that none of us are constrained in any way by ability, aptitude or whatever else you want to call any inherent attributes. The only thing that matters is effort, hard work, perseverance etc. I see that as a theory which describes the world as we would want it to be, rather than the world as it is.

Thank you for the further replies. I will take a look at moodgym, thanks @PoppyCup
I have the book tiny habits which I think sounds similar to atomic habits @CranfordScones - but I need to actually read it and put it into practice!!
It's this last bit - actually putting in the hard work consistently - that I struggle with. It's like my brain just can't spot the instances when I'm doing something unhelpful in time to then change it. My brain seems to be constantly switched on, thoughts come up at such speed, and my reactions are muscle memory that I need to unpick.
I haven't tried integrative counselling @mamma65432 but will look it up, thanks.

I am inspired to make a fresh attempt to change things so thank you all again for taking the time - and for managing my expectations @ButterCupPie

I understand your gripe but would counter it with this- do you think people can be blocked by self limiting beliefs?( I’m a rubbish dancer. I’ll never get a decent job. I’m unlikeable.)

I believe the above, so think we can need a growth mindset to offset them.

So children from loving supportive homes, with excellent teaching and no lack of resources probably can’t become maths geniuses by self belief and hard work. A bright kid from a disadvantaged home can probably do better in their maths exams than they expect if they trust in their ability and work at it. IYSWIIM. Not an exact explanation but roughly speaking.