Scam Voice was apparently me.

[Newtonianmechanics]

My dm is on holiday in Spain.

She has previously nearly been caught out by the text scam where the scammer pretends a loved one has lost their phone and needs money.

Having learned from this. Last night the same thing happened. She called the number. She is adamant it was me on rhe other end. She said I was upset and worrying about the cost to call. She tried to transfer me £985 for an iPhone. However she forgot her login code and was timed out. She said I was raging. Hung up and ahe kept trying.

She phoned my husband this morning to see if I was ok. Clearly it wasn't me.

Has this happened to anyone?

Did she say it was your voice or just messages?

I think you need to agree a safe word going forward, it's concerning she thinks it's real.

Just tell her in future to ask two security questions and only accept precise answers to them. Make them totally random - not family maiden names or addresses, but something like what did you spill down your front on the beach in Devon when you were 8. Or which pop star did you have a serious crush on when you were 12?

And point out if you were stuck somewhere without a phone - you'd ask for £40 for a Nokia burner not a grand for an i-Phone.

That's awful, so she wasn't able to transfer the money?

Is it worth getting her a new number as she's obviously on a vulnerable to scams target list somewhere.

Have you had any odd calls yourself recently @Newtonianmechanics ?

While I've not heard of it happening yet for phone scams, AI is already capable of copying people's voices, given enough training data. There was a big one recently where someone released a "recording" of Kier Starmer berating his staff.

Going forward, I'd advise everyone not to transfer money unless you're 100% sure that person is who they say they are. And give it a couple of years, the only way to be sure of that is if you've spoken to them in person, or have have a prearranged system of passwords

@Bobbotgegrinch

I agree. Voice replication AI is going to take scams to a new level in the next couple of years, so as you say the only way round this is a series of prearranged passwords and security questions.

I saw something about this on the telly the other day, apparently if there are videos of you online then there is the technology out there which allows fakers to sound like you on the phone. The recommendation was to have a code word, or something like a question only you and your mum would know the answer to.

It's unclear though whether scammers are actually using the deep fake technology as it would take quite a lot of effort. It might be that this is what has happened, or just that your mum got into a flap and just assumed that a woman with the same accent, was you. Especially if hte line was unclear.

@WinterParakeets

if you were stuck somewhere without a phone - you'd ask for £40 for a Nokia burner not a grand for an i-Phone.

Exactly. Perhaps the request for an iPhone was a gullibility filter? My Motorola Moto G54 only cost £170 for God's sake.

It's pretty easy to clone your voice using AI if there are any clips of you online. It's been going on for 4 or 5 years now (first reported case in 2019) but the tech has become far more easily available and criminals are using it more and more.

Not had any calls myself that I can recall.

We have said in future call both of us on our actual numbers. A safe word she thinks will only take use of it one time to listen in.
She is saying it was my voice but surely not.

I think this sounds more likely.
Confirmation bias.

Implies they know a lot about the family, phone numbers facebook info, proper relationships. Not just a guess that some of these scams use, like Mum it's your daughter and I need help....

Believe it or not, it's a lot less likely that someone is listening in on your calls to be able to hear a safe word, than It is that someone can replicate your voice using AI.

The technology is already there to replicate voices. It takes a lot of training data to make something realistic for public consumption, like the Keir Starmer example I mentioned.

But a quick panicky phone call needs a lot less fidelity. Add some crackle to the line, make out your stressed, and rush the victim so that they haven't got time to think clearly, and you can get away with very little and the victims memory will convince themselves afterwards that they've spoken to who they think they have. All you probably need is a couple of videos off Facebook.

If you can't convince your Mum that the only time you'll ever ask for money is in person, then a safe word is the only way.

Exactly what I was thinking. The ‘hi mum my phone has broken’ texts are usually phishing, they don’t actually know anything about you.

In this case they know your mum and that you are her daughter. They know your voice and can replicate it enough to fool your own mother.

I don't see how they can know anything about us. I even have different name on Facebook.

How can they link me with her? She doesn't even have a social media presence. She is 75. I think she has just thought it was me. Whicj is bad enough.

She won't have it though! It was definitely me. 🤦‍♀️

You and Yours covered this scam this week - have a listen. Also, your DM may be on a 'list' now where she gets more and more of these. When it happened to my great uncle we changed his number.

The password/security question ideas above are great but I'd also suggest having a word with her about thinking through these things. Are you usually a ragey person? If you are not, she needs to think if it is you. If you are then you probably need to fix that. 😂 Also, why on earth would you so desperately need that money etc.

But a quick panicky phone call needs a lot less fidelity. Add some crackle to the line, make out your stressed, and rush the victim so that they haven't got time to think clearly, and you can get away with very little and the victims memory will convince themselves afterwards that they've spoken to who they think they have. All you probably need is a couple of videos off Facebook.

Thanks I definitely think this happened without the facebook videos.

No exactly and the fact I had lost my phone but also I had a new bank account! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Either it’s an AI scam (the most likely as it does happen) or your mum is not remembering correctly - it was a woman’s voice and she assumed it was you as she was so focused on helping you and was stressed, or she imagined or dreamed it.

A lot of hackers use open source data, meaning anything readily accessible on Google. So if your social media is set to public, you're on the public electoral register, you've not opted out of 192.com, you're on a public linked in profile, you're on your work public facing pages...

Worse still these hackers and scammers often don't get your information because YOU have been lax but because other family members have been.

"Out celebrating aunty Marjorie who turns 80 today!" Immediately tells them her date of birth. "Remembering Nana Jones, mum and I really miss you" gives them yours and your mum's maiden names. "Lost our pet dog Scruffy today, the best dog I've ever owned" password question...

It's easily done!

We had this with my grandmother and it was the start of dementia

Exactly OP, by the time she got to the phonecall your mum was already 100% convinced it was you she was communicating with. She is expecting to hear you, if the line is dodgy that's easily explained by the fact she's overseas, she is worried about what might have happened and is being pressured by the person on the other end and that's exactly what they want - whip the victim into such a state that they don't question what is happening.

I'm glad they didn't get away with it. Definitely some sort of family question about where you went on your first foreign holiday or the name of next door's cat is the way to go.

😓

Are you absolutely sure the phone call happened? Check her call history? My first thought was dementia or some sort of episode tbh…

Can't you just agree with her that you will never phone or email her asking for emergency money? I mean who ar eall these grown adults that are supposedly asking their parents for cash? If I lost my phone and was in a foreign country or whatever I'd use my account, my overdraft, credit cards or whatever and if all were not available because I'd been robbed and lost everything id go to the British Embassy.

And you were safely back home anyway presumably, so could go into a bank, withdraw cash, use your husband's phone etc. I think it's more concerning that she thought it was credible that you would need money from her. As a mother of a first born recently left home I totally get this btw, the instinct is to do anything to make it right for them. But she's lost the logic of you now being a young student backpacking round the world or whatever so you wouldn't need to ask her to send you money for a new iPhone. I think you need to emphasise that to her going forward, and maybe get her to change her number. Also, contact her network and make sure all scam awareness facilities are switched on and that they put her on their vulnerable list.