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Original poster

Teaching sick leave. Can I still work supply if signed off from part time teaching job?

56 replies

Snowdrop32 · 09/12/2023 17:21

I'm am really stressed by my job and it is making me ill. I work part time and pick up supply on my non contracted days. This work does not stress me. If I get signed off from my permanent post can I still do supply? Does anyone know?

OP posts:
iamjustwinginglife · 09/12/2023 20:46

Resign-then do full time supply.

Riverlee · 09/12/2023 20:47

LIZS · 09/12/2023 18:09

In theory you can , if it is clear that the issue affecting job 1 does not affecting job 2 and no reasonable adjustment can be made. For example if it were a physical issue job 1 involved lifting and standing for a long period while job 2 was seated with shorter hours. However I think since both are teaching, hands on, similar hours, it would be very difficult. Do you usually work for same LA?

This,

PTSDBarbiegirl · 09/12/2023 20:47

No you can't teach at all until you inform employers you are fit for work. You are currently not fit to work. Resign from your permanent job and take supply.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 09/12/2023 20:49

Some contracts will also prohibit you from doing other work without currents employers permission too. Not sure if yours does

HollyJollyRobin · 09/12/2023 20:51

I wouldn't have thought so tbh.

Spaghetto24 · 09/12/2023 20:57

It's not quite as simple as the OP just resigning. If she resigned tomorrow, her leave date would be 30 April. Hopefully her school would be decent and release her early but no guarantee.

splothersdog · 09/12/2023 20:59

No. Absolutely not.

Whoopitywhoops · 09/12/2023 20:59

Why should the tax payer pay you twice?

Shakespearesister · 09/12/2023 21:01

Being signed off is quite a big deal and is effectively saying you are unfit to work.
Therefore you cannot work in another job that you deem to be less stressful.
I’m a teacher so I get it, but hand your notice in and go to a new school rather than get yourself in more trouble.

EnidSpyton · 09/12/2023 21:10

Yes, I believe you can IF the circumstances for being signed off are workplace-specific.

In that case, you would be signed off from the specific job you are doing in a specific working environment, not signed off from practising your profession altogether. There is a difference.

A friend was recently signed off sick and the doctor wrote the reason on the form - it was due to bullying from senior management. This is not a circumstance that could be repeated in another workplace, even within the same profession, as that same senior manager would not be working there as well.

As long as you stick to doing supply on your non-contracted days, I don't see that the school would legally have a leg to stand on if indeed your sick leave was due to bullying or another school-specific problem.

This being said, I don't think your school would look favourably on your decision and may make your life harder if they found out. You need to decide if it's worth the potential hassle of having to fight your corner and create more ill-will. If the job is making you ill, you'd be better off resigning now, negotiating early release and getting a new job for a January start.

Whatever you do, seek union advice before making any decisions.

Brandyginger · 09/12/2023 21:11

One of those situations which would be both illegal (fraud) AND unethical

EnidSpyton · 09/12/2023 21:21

Shakespearesister · 09/12/2023 21:01

Being signed off is quite a big deal and is effectively saying you are unfit to work.
Therefore you cannot work in another job that you deem to be less stressful.
I’m a teacher so I get it, but hand your notice in and go to a new school rather than get yourself in more trouble.

I don't believe this is accurate.

Depending on the circumstances under which she is being signed off, I believe the OP can work in another job she deems to be less stressful on the days when she is not contracted to be at work with this employer, if she can prove that the stressors that have caused her to be signed off from her existing job are not present in the other job.

If it were a situation where the OP had, say, a broken hip and was signed off from work because she was immobile, and then she decided to go and do supply work on crutches in another school two days per week, then that would be a clear issue, as the reason for her being signed off should equally affect her ability to do both of those jobs.

However, if it's a situation where the OP is being bullied by her Headteacher, for example, and the stress of that has made her unable to cope with working at her school, then she could legitimately be signed off from that employment, but still be able to work in another school on her days off from that job where that bullying Headteacher was not present.

Whatelsecouldibecalled · 09/12/2023 21:26

You can actually. In your non teaching days. So if you are 0.6 and work mon-wed you can supply thurs Fri. You are signed off on WRS from a specific work place.

However. I would also check very carefully with the union.

TrickorTreacle · 09/12/2023 22:13

Being signed off as unfit for work means you're unfit for work whatever day of the week it is, including weekends. If caught, it would be at best a disciplinary, and at worst a P45.

Ilovelurchers · 09/12/2023 22:29

It depends what the Dr writes on your sick note.

You aren't proposing anything unethical. You do need to discuss it with the Dr providing the sick note to ensure they feel it's appropriate given the nature and causes of your illness. And the agency who employ you as supply need to be informed and given a copy of the note - they may take a view that they would prefer you not to work as it may invalidate their insurance - their HR will need to look at what the dr puts on your note and take a view on it.

The key is going to be what the Dr writes. I would advise you to be as open with everyone as you can. Including your current employers. They need to know how it is that they are creating a workplace environment that you are unable to work in health-wise, while another school is tolerable to you. If they are decent employers they will look to adjust your conditions if they can. If not, you might be better off resigning and seeking more supply work/a permanent job elsewhere. If they are bullies, it would be good to get out before they try and start a formal process against you (unless they already have). Jump before you are pushed and keep the sweet relationship with your supply agency you presumably have currently.

Ilovelurchers · 09/12/2023 22:37

Not sure why anybody thinks she is harming "tax payers". She wants sick pay from the work she is too unwell to do on her contracted days - don't think that puts an undue burden on "tax payers" - unless they'd rather live in a society where there is no sick pay and ill people starve?

And she wants paying for the supply teaching she is seeking to actually do on the other non-contracted days, because she is well enough to do this work. Do "tax payers" expect her to teach their kids for free on these days out of the goodness of her heart?

Bewildering.

stomachameleon · 09/12/2023 23:02

When you are signed off you are normally signed off for a period of time not intermittent days unless you are returning to work and ask for a staggered return.
My note is not for a specific place. I just give it in to work. You can't manipulate your note.

stomachameleon · 09/12/2023 23:03

Can't you go full time supply?

EC22 · 09/12/2023 23:05

No.
Thats moonlighting.
get caught, get sacked.

LorlieS · 09/12/2023 23:09

Whilst I don't think it's advisable, I can categorically say that supply teaching is far, far less stressful than day-to-day class teaching.
I'm a qualified primary teacher (20 years qualified next year) but currently working as an HLTA. Not ideal as I'm used as cheap sickness cover so frequently, but I would never, ever go back to full-time class teaching. It nearly killed me.
My pay now is dire - not far off minimum wage - but that's as it is. Worth the sacrifice to keep my sanity!

OMGitsnotgood · 09/12/2023 23:14

No teaching experience but lots of management experience and I'd say that would be fraudulent. But fully expect people to be along to tell me it's different for teachers

Wherearemykeysagain · 09/12/2023 23:18

Ask your GP to state work related stress, I think there is a section for adjustments or notes so they could say other work not in the same school is allowed but obviously your HT would see this....potentially you might get referred to occ health.

I totally see why one school could be making you unwell and day to day supply not.

Wherearemykeysagain · 09/12/2023 23:20

TrickorTreacle · 09/12/2023 22:13

Being signed off as unfit for work means you're unfit for work whatever day of the week it is, including weekends. If caught, it would be at best a disciplinary, and at worst a P45.

That's not true at all. Fit notes (they replaced sick notes) can specify part time or a set number of hours or only certain roles.

Amermaidandaman · 09/12/2023 23:23

No I was in exactly the same situation, worked in a perm part time job in a school for 2 days and supply for the other 3. The school became extremely stressful environment, I was close to having a breakdown so I went off sick. At first I wasn’t well enough to supply anyway so didn’t. When I did feel ready I spoke to my union and was advised not to work supply. I couldn’t afford to stay on a significantly reduced pay so I ended up handing in my notice, negotiating an immediate exit and going on full time supply. I’ve found a great school to be in through this and I’m hoping to be made permanent soon.

Whoopitywhoops · 10/12/2023 06:32

Ilovelurchers · 09/12/2023 22:37

Not sure why anybody thinks she is harming "tax payers". She wants sick pay from the work she is too unwell to do on her contracted days - don't think that puts an undue burden on "tax payers" - unless they'd rather live in a society where there is no sick pay and ill people starve?

And she wants paying for the supply teaching she is seeking to actually do on the other non-contracted days, because she is well enough to do this work. Do "tax payers" expect her to teach their kids for free on these days out of the goodness of her heart?

Bewildering.

Because she would be getting paid by the tax payer twice.

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