To put this in my appraisal..

innocentdevil77 · 2023-12-08T23:56:58+00:00

I basically work in a poorly paid job. Were expected to do CPD and study out of work too. Pay is only just above minimum wage wage. We've been given lengthy appraisal forms to fill out at home. One of them is what we'd like to improve and what we struggle with. I've put "having 2 young children (youngest is 18 months) I struggle to digest reading policies out of work etc. I'm currently writing this for example at 11pm as it's the only time I've had alone all day. Could we have time in work to study for CPD etc" Is that out of order? All other jobs I've had have given us paid time in work if they want us to learn something!

FeatherBlack · 09/12/2023 00:00

Depends on your organisation. In my line of work, that would be accepted as valid feedback and tbh, we'd never have to provide that feedback anyway as they do already respect the work life balance. But I'm sure my organisation is in the minority in that respect.

JustAGirlScotland · 09/12/2023 00:02

I think it's a fair point to make however I'd reword it.

Something along the lines of:

Given my responsibilities as a parent to two young children, with the youngest being 18 months old, I find it challenging to thoroughly review policies outside of working hours. As an illustration, I am currently composing this message at 11 pm, as it represents the only time I have had to myself throughout the entire day. I am wondering if there could be an opportunity to allocate time during working hours for professional development activities, such as studying for CPD. This adjustment would greatly contribute to my ability to engage in continuous learning and enhance my professional skills.

TheSmallAssassin · 09/12/2023 00:04

I would keep my kids out of it, TBH

"I lead a busy life and struggle to digest reading policies, etc, outside of work hours. I think we should have dedicated time allocated to CPD during our normal working hours to recognise its importance in improving our performance"

Original poster

innocentdevil77 · 09/12/2023 00:04

@JustAGirlScotland you are very professional compared to me 😂 I'll reprint the page and copy that!!

It is true though, I'm paid £11 an hour.. I have to read loads of policies out of work, do this appraisal that took me 2 hours to fill in, study all the CPD out of work. At least once I week I wake up to texts asking if I can come in on my day off when it's known I don't have childcare. I'm considering just getting a cafe or pub job I can go home and forget about.

OP posts:

Chiar · 09/12/2023 00:07

I think that is a completely reasonable thing to comment on. TOIL might be another option.

However, how your boss will take it, we can't judge.

WhateverMate · 09/12/2023 00:09

It's a valid enough request without bringing your kids or your home life into it.

I say that because it would be just as valid if you lived alone.

Original poster

innocentdevil77 · 09/12/2023 00:13

Before having kids I worked in the same career at a different place and we didn't have to study anything out of work. Nothing at all. I understand CPD is your own responsibility but I have to do it to be able to work for them.. so surely they should accommodate some time? A lot of it isn't even CPD just general pages and pages of their own policies.

OP posts:

10HailMarys · 09/12/2023 00:18

If CPD is a requirement of your job then no, you shouldn't be having to do it in your own time. You should also not have to fill out your appraisal form in your own time. It's work and they should either being allocating time time during your normal working hours for you to do this kind of thing, or they need to be paying you overtime to complete it.

And no, YANBU to put something like this in your appraisal. I suspect if my employer was treating people like this, people would be a lot less polite in their appraisals than you've been, to be honest.

BarbaraofSeville · 09/12/2023 00:35

You could be really bold and tell them that making you work outside your paid hours puts them at risk of breaching NMW regulations, which it could well be.

£11 per hour is only 5% above NMW. If those 2 hours are more than 5% of your working week, you earned less than NMW for all the hours you worked and they are breaking the law.

If you work in something like a care home or other regulated business, you will be legally required to read the policies, they're not doing it for fun. So they should pay you for the time it takes to read the policies.

BarbaraofSeville · 09/12/2023 00:37

But don't mention your DC, no-one, whether or not they have children, should be expected to work for free, especially when they're hourly paid on low wages.

MilkChocolateCookie · 09/12/2023 00:40

I agree - no need to mention your kids. You should be given time in work to do CPD and fill in your appraisal.

Theredfoxfliesatmidnight · 09/12/2023 00:46

I echo a previous poster who said depending on the hours you are having to put in at home, it could take you under NMW. Big companies such as WHSmith and I think Sainsburys have had the book thrown at them and had to pay financial compensation for doing exactly the same thing. I wouldn't threaten them with this but you could politely mention you're concerned that the additional work might bring you under the NMW level, if you're pushed into a corner.

etmoiandme · 09/12/2023 01:06

10HailMarys · 09/12/2023 00:18

If CPD is a requirement of your job then no, you shouldn't be having to do it in your own time. You should also not have to fill out your appraisal form in your own time. It's work and they should either being allocating time time during your normal working hours for you to do this kind of thing, or they need to be paying you overtime to complete it.

And no, YANBU to put something like this in your appraisal. I suspect if my employer was treating people like this, people would be a lot less polite in their appraisals than you've been, to be honest.

Agree with all this.

Original poster

innocentdevil77 · 09/12/2023 01:15

Yep it's a requirement, we have to do 10 hours CPD a year to remain on the register. I think it just makes me more angry because of the kids.. I don't leave work and have time to myself as I'm watching a toddler who's into everything between school runs.

I think it's maybe an opportunity for me to say, I'm not sure this job is for me as I need one I can just come home and forget about. I've seen cleaning jobs advertised at £12.50ph

OP posts:

CompanyisComing · 09/12/2023 01:19

Jesus Christ, I’d tell my employer to get tae fuck if they thought readingtheir policies and procedures in my leisure time was in any way appropriate. I’m not sure that they can legally oblige you to do that, and if it’s a lot of bullshit you’re expected to read, keep a tally of the hours spent doing it, if those additional hours take you below national minimum wage then it’s illegal.

bonzaitree · 09/12/2023 01:41

innocentdevil77 · 09/12/2023 00:13

Before having kids I worked in the same career at a different place and we didn't have to study anything out of work. Nothing at all. I understand CPD is your own responsibility but I have to do it to be able to work for them.. so surely they should accommodate some time? A lot of it isn't even CPD just general pages and pages of their own policies.

I bet no one else reads it and just says they have

Just saying OP 👀

bonzaitree · 09/12/2023 01:43

I wouldn’t be spending my own time doing anything for £11 per hour.

If you earned £80k then yes.

dizzydizzydizzy · 09/12/2023 19:20

BarbaraofSeville · 09/12/2023 00:35

You could be really bold and tell them that making you work outside your paid hours puts them at risk of breaching NMW regulations, which it could well be.

£11 per hour is only 5% above NMW. If those 2 hours are more than 5% of your working week, you earned less than NMW for all the hours you worked and they are breaking the law.

If you work in something like a care home or other regulated business, you will be legally required to read the policies, they're not doing it for fun. So they should pay you for the time it takes to read the policies.

This! There was a case brought against Sports Direct a couple of
Years ago. The staff had to undergo a compulsory security check which took around 15 minute every day. This was not Paid and therefore took their earnings below minimum wage. Sports Direct lost.