AIBU to be stunned how Wizz Air can do this?

[KateW1989]

Hi all,
I’m quite interested in hearing for anyone who knows how airport service charges work.

I purchased a return flight between Gatwick and Athens from Wizz Air for just £31 RETURN.

Now what I just cannot understand is this.

I searched for the same route on the on British Airways Fare Calculator, and was presented with the following information.

“
Adult 1
Item Price of item
Fare £82.00
Carrier imposed charge £18.00
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom £13.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom £21.79
Airport Development Charge - Greece £10.30
Passenger Terminal Facility Charge - Greece £13.70
Passenger Security Charge - Greece £4.30”

The fare BA would charge was over £163

Now, I assume that BA can’t just be the only airline that has to pass these charges onto their passengers.

Yet I just DO NOT understand how on earth Wizz Air can make a profit based on charging £31 for a return flight?!?

The Air Passenger Duty is surely mandatory, so that’s £13 + €12. Let’s say that’s about £22.

Do Wizz Air passengers also have to pay the £21.79 ‘Pssenger Servive Charge’ to Gatwick Airport? Or the Greek (Athens) Airport charges (totalling over £28). If so, Wizz Air would be LOSING £40 on taking me to Athens and back.

It just does not make sense to me.

Are budget airlines exempt from the same airport charges as legacy carriers such as BA, or have they negotiated a lower rate? Do budget airlines pay the same level of Air Passenger Duty as airlines such as BA?

If so, how can they survive?

I've never even heard of Wizzair. Is it a London thing?

Part of the reason is they circumvent their legal obligations to refund and/or compensate customers for inevitable cancellations and delays. There are countless articles about customers being denied boarding/food/accommodation/expenses/refunds. They have taken Wizz Air to court, they’ve been ordered to pay and still not done so.

I wouldn’t touch an airline that treats its customers with such contempt. All well and good if things go to schedule but I have no inclination to risk being stranded abroad scrambling about for a last minute seat with an alternative.

Exactly

Prices increase closer to the flight so those low fares are teaser rates, they make money from add ONS and also some airports offer incentives to airlines to fly to them and provide captive footfall for drop off fees, parking, retail F&B lease revenue etc.

Some major airlines eg flag carriers like Emirates are loss making as the government is trying to develop the local economy through tourism and hub airport activities.

@KateW1989

Are budget airlines exempt from the same airport charges as legacy carriers such as BA

Not exempt but different airports charge different rates - Heathrow is chuffing expensive, not just for the charges you see on your ticket but all the hidden stuff like landing fees, aircraft parking fees etc etc.

That's why budget airline sometimes choose some seemingly odd airports, it's done to try and avoid the places with the higher charges.

have they negotiated a lower rate?

That's certainly rumoured to have happened at some smaller airports where the LoCo might be the airport's major customer...something along the lines of "reduce our handling fees or we move the whole operation from your airport to the one 50 miles up the road.."

Do budget airlines pay the same level of Air Passenger Duty as airlines such as BA?

Yes.

A couple of other points; A controversial issue for some time was that some airlines were getting subsidised or even free handling at the smaller regional airports, especially in some countries in mainland Europe, because they were bringing business/money into the local area by way of tourists etc. The EU clamped down on it a while back but it may still go on.

Finally there's the whole loss leader thing that has been previously mentioned. Having low sticker price on at least on some tickets allows the airline to legally advertise low fares.."fly to XXX for 5 pounds" reality is most people on the flight will pay much more (especially if they book late) and the airline will try and claw back more money via ancillary revenue (seat selection fees, checked bag fees, food drink onboard etc).

HTH.

A loss leader.... but also not quite the same quality (think Ryanair!).

I think there may be some different charges according to time of day and year by the airports. Or perhaps which stand/terminal you use.

As mentioned upthread, yes, things like landing fees, ramp fees (charge parking the aircraft), ground handling fees can and do vary enormously, but at the major airports landing fees and ramp fees can be well into three figures for a sizeable aircraft (lots of the charges are linked to aircraft weight).

I have heard stories of on jetty stands being more expensive per hour than remote (bus) stands at many airports, though I've never seen the numbers on that.

‘What do you mean by advertising?’ You’ve literally come on here and advertised their flights for them and they haven’t paid for the privilege! I hadn’t heard of whizz air before this thread, how I have. Possibly true of thousands of others who have seen this, and more commonly people telling their friends, family, work colleagues ‘I got such a cheap flight with X airline, only £xx to fly there!’ They might have lost in your individual ticket but if it puts the word out that they’re a good cheap airline, it doesn’t matter.

To keep their slot for busier times (and making sure planes are in the correct place), the plane will be taking off with or without passengers. Better to have passengers you can make money from for extra fees/services than nothing at all.

That's I'm addition to the other posts.

I’ve flown with wizzair and found them great for a budget airline. Clean planes with more legroom than easyjet.

And Jet2 have flights which land at 3am and charge less than Tui who land at 6pm.

Prices during school holidays will also massively subsidise cheaper flights at other times

And the advertising thing - they can advertise "flights to Athens from £31 return" when in reality hardly anyone actually pays that price

They carry more passengers. If you do a very quick google there are several articles explaining the answer. They cram seats in. They also don’t do complimentary, so you have to pay (through the nose) for everything if you want to buy it on the plane. You also probably don’t have any luggage in that fare? Even cabin baggage that needs to go in the overhead lockers is extra. So they simply work on an economy of scale; carry more passengers, charge for more.

think about the staff they use; pilots often v young with minimum flying experience (trust me, i have flown by budget airline to a regional uk airport numerous times, and making the tarmac each time is not always guarenteed!). Plus no frills, minimum cleaning between flights, etc
Cheap gates (ie several counties over from end of airport) early or late slots when it's almost impossible to get to airport by public transpoer
No commitment to greener flying...

think about the staff they use; pilots often v young with minimum flying experience (trust me, i have flown by budget airline to a regional uk airport
numerous times, and making the tarmac each time is not always guarenteed!).

Ummm...I'm not sure that is characterised correctly TBH.

Wizz don't have a great reputation in the industry when it comes to T&Cs and management style but in terms of pilots demographics and competence the reality is like most of the LoCos, including the UK based ones, they are big on recruiting newish pilots to go in the Right Hand Seat and most of those youngsters (at BA, Ryanair, Easyjet and Wizz) have a similar level of experience

If you look at Wizz's requirements for those planning to join as experienced commanders (captains, Left Hand Seat) they are pretty much industry standard - this is their current requirement for Direct Entry Captains.

• Minimum 3.500 factorized hours*
• Valid Instrument Rating (IR) on Airbus A320
• 500HRS PIC hours (field) on Aircraft type ICAO (field): Airbus A320 family
• Last commercial flight within the preceding 6 months (preferable, not hard limit due to COVID-19 effects)
• Minimum 500 hours actual flight time as Commander on Airbus A320 aircraft**
• Minimum 300 hours actual flight time on Airbus A320 in the last 12 months** (preferable, not hard limit due to COVID-19 effects).

HTH

I don't fly (fear) but this has been a really interesting read.

They make extra money scamming passengers. Many such cases.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2023/nov/27/wizz-air-charged-to-check-in-refund-online-customer-service

Airports are a business, and know some people wouldn't fly BA if there was no Ryanair/Jet2/Wizz. They just wouldn't go. It's in their interest to get people into the car parks (£100 for us to park at half term next year) and the terminals to pay for food/drink/shopping. So I reckon the charges are indeed lower for budget airlines.

Airlines have to run flights regularly to retain their slots with airports. At certain times of year those flights will not be well used so they charge less to earn something but it's the flight fares during the high season that will compensate for the losses on the low season. It's supply and demand.

Well yes, as mentioned upthread the less attractive airports tend to lower their standing charges across the board to attract pretty much anybody…if a LoCo or a legacy airline then chooses to use that airport both airlines benefit.

Below that level there may be some horse trading and deals might be struck if there’s a choice of companies on the one airfield to provide for example services such as refuelling, baggage handling, check -in etc.

What you don’t generally see is the big popular airports lowering charges just for selected customers…they don’t have to….

Government charges such as passenger duty (ADP) are set nationally.

Budget airlines sell a few crazy cheap flights but charge normal or higher prices for the rest. They then slap on all sorts of other charges and often fly to less central airports, as well as providing a low to average standard of customer care. The planes, while safe enough, will probably also be older.

They up sell. You may get the ticket for 30 quid, but booking a seat next to your toddler/child/partner will be about £30 for both flights. A cabin bag bigger than a small rucksack probably they same again. A hold bag £50-60 each way. A coffee and and sandwich on the plane £10. They rely on most people doing all or some of this. If you're happy with the bare basics you can get a great price, if you need the extra it's probably no cheaper than going with a fully serviced airline.

. The planes, while safe enough, will probably also be older.

I haven't got time to dive into sources now but I'm not sure that's quite correct, certainly not for the main european LoCos.

For example last I heard Wizzair was shooting for an average fleet age of about three years (no idea how they are funding that) and as another example Ryanair is in the middle of a big phase of aircraft replacement

It's actually the legacy carriers that tended to have the older fleets (and TBF you expect airframes to easily last for 25 years plus anyway).

The main problem with older airframes is not safety, it's economy - both actual flying costs (they tend to not be fuel efficient compared with the new generation engine/airframe combinations) and they can be relatively heavy on maintenance compared with a new buy.

I have been flying with them for 15 years and never once saw an overbooked flight. Is this a new thing?

OP, they will balance it out with other tickets on other lines who will cost £500 instead of £50, so the balance for them will be right.

There are just as many distressing stories about British Airways too!

Have a look on Trust Pilot!