To raise this with school?

[LifePortfolio]

My daughter is in Y3 and getting on well. She comes home with the usual tales of what's gone on in the day, any particular occurrences etc and there's often mention of two children in particular who go on yellow/red on the behaviour chart for messing around. So far, so normal.

However, she came home yesterday and said her teacher had said to the whole class that if they wanted Child X and Child Y to stop messing around and disrupting lessons, they needed to go home and tell their parents to complain to the school - as that's the only way anything would get done.

AIBU to be a bit uncomfortable about this? It feels like the teacher is almost encouraging the class to gang up on these two children, as well as admitting that the school isn't currently managing poor behaviour. Regardless of what's going on with the children (and I have no idea, I don't know either of them and no prior experience of the teacher, so couldn't say how bad the behaviour really is), I can't see how involving their classmates helps.

I also don't know how best to raise it - speak directly to the teacher involved or go over their head to the leadership team? Grateful for thoughts, I feel a bit conflicted.

Wow, I mean I wonder if the teacher worded it a bit differently but the amount of times I (teacher) have wished more parents complained to the head teacher when the disruption or violence is not being taken seriously, the teacher must be at the end of their tether!

I would email to the office for the attention of the head about how you’re fed up of your child’s education being disrupted every single day by certain pupils who the behaviour chart is obviously not working for.

Being a teacher myself, it sounds like your dd teacher has had enough. It’s most likely the other children keep complaining about the same two kids. The teacher has had enough and has probably passed it onto management and is not getting any support to deal with the issues. With other children constantly complaining then the teacher has probably said in passing, tell your parents to phone up and complain.

This is sometimes the only way management take these things seriously and it’s not really about ganging up on the two children, but more making sure the rest of the class isn’t having their learning disrupted or in some cases, getting injured by certain children.

If you’re unhappy with what is said then I’d personally speak to the teacher first and then escalate it from there. If you’re concerned that your child’s learning is constantly being disrupted by these children then I’d contact the head teacher and voice your concerns.

The teacher is most likely correct. And probably at their wits end to have actually said that to the class.

Putting in a complaint about the behaviour of the class to the head would probably be a good idea if it is really disrupting the education of your child. I would also say that the teacher seems to be incredibly stressed and in need of support. I wouldn't necessarily say what the teacher said.

Thanks all. I wasn't worried about my child's education before, but you're right, it does sound like the teacher's at the end of their tether. I'll email the head and express my concerns. I have a younger one in Reception who hasn't had the best start behaviour wise, so can frame it not only as concern for the older one, but also that the right support is in place throughout so I don't end up on the other side in 3 years time!

It’s an awful thing for the teacher to say, but sadly she’s probably right. It sounds like she is in a very difficult situation and is struggling with it. I’d be supportive of her for your own dd’s sake.

The poor teacher.

I did half a day supply yesterday in EYFS and it was like the Wild West. Children were literally jumping up and down on tables like cartoon kids, snatching things from each other and jumping up and down on them, pushing each other over etc. I've never seen anything like it.

Sadly HT is more likely to listen to parents concerns than the teachers.

Also by complaining - it starts the ball rolling for the kids in question to get extra help and support.

Another way to look at it... complaining will help the kids and teacher get the help they need.

DD(6) has an incredibly disruptive boy in her class. One who very clearly shouldn't be at mainstream school. We're talking classroom being evacuated 3 times a day while he kicks, bites, punches the teacher etc. Teacher pretty much begged parents at parents evening to complain to the HT as she was struggling to get traction. We all did as she asked. Child is now taught separately with his own assistant teacher. Comes in to the class occasionally and disrupts but from what I gather is immediately removed and/or sent home. No idea if our complaining helped or just a coincidence but she was clearly at the end of her tether.

You said your DD is getting on well? Why would you complain about children based on hearsay from an 8 year old?

I would contact the school wondering what the story is - mainly because however at the end of their tether the teacher may be if they really did say that it is utterly inappropriate - but I wouldn't actually complain until the story became clearer. To be clear I would be complaining about the teacher having said it. Not little kids who are none of my business and I wouldn't be prepared, as an adult, to bully.

I've been in a similar situation in the past. Parents / carers complaining definitely helped as it meant SLT could no longer ignore the situation.

I've been working in a primary school for the last couple of weeks; an absolute eye-opener. So many teachers are at the end of their tether and at risk of leaving teaching altogether due to disruptive kids and an absolute lack of support. The behaviour is horrendous, constantly battling against aggression and disruption. This teacher is clearly struggling, they won't be the only one, we've had a chronic underinvestment in education and the cracks are there for all to see.

I wouldn’t be complaining to the school but I would be querying with the teacher if my child’s recollection / interpretation of the conversation was correct.

I’d want to understand more about the teacher’s view of the impact of the classroom behaviour on my child before raising it any further, and certainly wouldn’t complain to the school on the back of a Y3 child if I hadn’t been concerned enough to do it previously.

Regardless of the behaviour of the two children, it’s really not on if your child’s recollection is accurate and it was said in front of the children in question. Imagine being sat there while a teacher told your classmates to get their parents to complain about you! That’s NOT to condone their behaviour but it’s a terrible way to manage the situation and it would imply the teacher is struggling, which needs to be addressed.

Absolute breakdown in the system.

So many more children with needs, so many with extraordinarily high needs. Some children live in horrific circumstances.

Headteacher, deputy headteacher spending the vast majority of time De-escalating behaviours, contacting LA services, following up on safeguarding concerns and trying to find staff and other support. These leaders are having to start their usual leadership jobs at the end of the school day.

Too many children with named special schools are in mainstream as there are not enough special school places. Very few alternative provision places. A huge rise in primary school exclusions, so much money being spent to provide ‘private’ places out of area ( six figure sums).

Staff are leaving. Support staff are not applying.

The education system is in crisis.

Imagine being sat there while a teacher told your classmates to get their parents to complain about you!

It's unlikely that they were 'sat there'.

Imagine feeling so pressured, so close to the edge that you say something like this in the first place. This is why there are no teachers. They aren't coping.

Did you read the Ruth Perry report yesterday?

I've been working in a primary school for the last couple of weeks; an absolute eye-opener.

@snowgal I wish every parent could see just a glimpse of what happens in their child's class. There are things that happen on a daily basis (violent behaviour towards staff and other students, disrupting lessons, swearing, threats, throwing chairs, screaming and so on) that parents would just roll their eyes and say oh yeah that only happens in other schools, when the reality is their child is probably experiencing the same or worse.

In my daughters class, one child was constantly hurting other children, scratching, biting, pinching, etc. My daughter was hurt twice (small injuries). The third time, she was injured badly, she was actually scared to go to school. I took photos of the injuries and wrote to the head. I outlined the impact to my child physically and emotionally. I asked how the school intended to safeguard my child. Within a week the school got a temp to support the child. The classroom teacher was delighted, the kids were safer and the child was happier because he wasn't hurting his friends and constantly in trouble. The teacher thanked me morre than once.

It sounds like the teacher has gone to SLT and they aren't supporting her/him. As parents you might need to step in. It sounds like very disruptive behaviour that will be impacting your kids education.

I am massively supportive of teachers and would clearly want the situation addressing if the teacher is at the end of their tether and isn’t getting the support they need from the school. I still wouldn’t think it’s right for a teacher to say that sort of thing in front of the children in question, if indeed the recollection is accurate.

Maybe it wasn’t said in front of them, who knows, that’s my point - I’d want to establish facts as if it is as recounted, it’s terrible for all concerned (the two children, the rest of the class and the teacher).

*You said your DD is getting on well? Why would you complain about children based on hearsay from an 8 year old?

I would contact the school wondering what the story is - mainly because however at the end of their tether the teacher may be if they really did say that it is utterly inappropriate - but I wouldn't actually complain until the story became clearer. To be clear I would be complaining about the teacher having said it. Not little kids who are none of my business and I wouldn't be prepared, as an adult, to bully.*

Yes, this was my first reaction. Complaining seemed a bit OTT given that I don't know the children and didn't have any concerns before hearing of this comment by the teacher (which I do believe was said - while my DD has been known to lie to get out of trouble etc, she doesn't tend towards fantasy and I can't see her pulling it out of thin air).

Having seen the comments from others about classroom support and behaviour, I think raising it from a perspective of classroom management is best, without focusing on the two named children. As I said, we're struggling a bit with my 4 year old not listening in class, so I think a review of how class teachers are supported throughout the school wouldn't go amiss tbh.

Yes @LifePortfolio your approach sounds measured. Questions always more sensible than complaints.

This is a great approach, good luck!