To think we do girls a massive disservice?

[Sexnotgender]

Just dropped off at primary school, the vast, vast majority of girls are in stupid little Mary Jane type shoes with ankle socks. No jumpers.

The boys are in sensible waterproof looking shoes, long trousers and jumpers.

I stood next to a young girl waiting to go in and she kept saying how cold she was. I felt so sorry for her.

@Theprincessisblanketed yep I’ve had similar, I am very much a feminist and hate gender stereotypes, but my DD struggled when she started reception to make friends and spent a lot of time ‘observing.’ She still is desperate to ‘fit in.’ It’s all well and good using your child to make a political stand, but sometimes you have to take in to account an individual’s feelings and the fact that your child has their own tastes and opinions. She wanted Mary Janes. They are sturdy still and she wears thick tights. I bought her trousers but she hates wearing them because all her girl friends are in skirts. We did then get her a pair of black lace up boots (which she chose) so she wears those on wet or really cold days. And I’ve seen a lot of girls at her school in similar boots on those bad weather days.

OP I do completely understand your point though and hate how objectification of girls starts in infancy, even down to their bloody swimwear. Thank god for full body swimwear!

There are warm girls clothes available though. My daughter has shiny Velcro shoes that are a cross between a trainer and a shoe, only from Asda but they seem to be holding up and keeping her feet warm and dry. She wears trousers- this week it’s been the fleecy lined leggings from primark although I appreciate some schools won’t allow leggings. She has on a cardi, long warm coat, hat and gloves. If anything she’s warmer than my son used to be in primary because he refused trousers and wore shorts year round. In his high school he has to wear trousers now which took him forever to get used to!

Boots are banned at my daughter's primary school, she always wore boots to nursery in winter. It's annoying. She has the clumpiest biggest shoes I could find that were not 'boy' shoes. Cannot get her into tights or trousers without an enormous meltdown so she has long (over the knee) socks on. Went in to school this morning for a music assembly and noticed that she was the only one of the entire school not wearing her cardigan (she was sent in wearing her cardigan). She claims not to feel the cold. (She's also autistic). But I do understand your post OP. It is a feminist issue. Young girls do want to fit in though, and the majority seem to buy into the whole pink/ unicorns/ pretty frilly socks are for girls nonsense. Mine was not interested in any of that until school. At nursery was boots and thick jogging bottoms in winter, and was into dinosaurs. Since school it's skirts and unicorns. I despair.

My DD (Y3) has black Clark’s school boots this year, and there’s just been a note in the school newsletter saying boots are not part of uniform (for social levelling?!?!). Well she’ll be wearing her boots until Spring because a) they fit and are comfy and b) she has dry feet!! I am normally one to toe the line completely as regards school, but this just seems ridiculous.

I agree about the shoes for girls but to be honest I think it's just time we do away with traditional school uniform all together. I only have boys but the school shoes never last the whole year as they're not practical for playing football or running around in the woods. School trousers aren't warm at all, I wouldn't want to wear flimsy, loose trousers in the winter. DS1 wears his PE kit to school two days a week as I'm sure lots of children do now and it seems much more practical and comfortable and I no longer have to replace his school shoes every term.

Interestingly I thought quite the opposite when I dropped the kids off at school today. The girls were all layered up with boots and tights etc and the boys only really have the option of the same trousers all year round.

It enrages me. Especially as we live in an area where lots of children walk a good distance to school.

One of the reasons I felt instantly that DD4’s new HT was going to be a good one was that in her first week (pre covid times) she sent out a note highlighting that children walking to school should be dressed in easy to see colours and made reflective stickers for bags a school manners prize (which coincidentally every child managed to win within two weeks…)

The local secondary HT isn’t half as sensible sadly.

But layering when wearing trousers is perfectly possible as well.

Tights (or leggins, long johns etc) under trousers seem fairly normal to me. and warmer than a skirt and tights...

I know kids do some running around and the inside of school is heated but many of them also walk home or have to wait at the bus stop. My school uniform was a skirt all year round and socks or tights. I couldn't stand the feeling of tights and in the winter waiting for the bus my legs were practically blue. I thought it was normal to be freezing all the time in winter. Now as an adult I wear thermal leggings under trousers and two pairs of socks and would refuse to force my child to wait bare-legged in ice or snow

My daughter age 9 hates having her legs covered. She has school trousers and warm tights but she always insists on a skirt with modesty shorts underneath and socks. People constantly ask her "aren't you cold? " and she says no and laughs. It's not all "bad parenting".

She wears shorts at the weekend too!

There is none of that at DD's school thankfully, she's in reception and the girls are dressed as warm as the boys and just as scruffy looking. Many wear trousers.

I did always think this in the park though when DD was a toddler and we went a lot. DD would be in her scruffs with trainers or wellies on her feet, tearing around the playground, as would many girls in there. But there would always be one or two toddlers dressed to the nines with beautiful dresses and patent shoes who were not allowed to run around, jump in puddles, climb up anything in case they got dirty. I always felt so sorry for them... just why?!

Of course layering is possible under boys' trousers, just as it is possible for girls to wear 'boys' shoes. But in the UK boys don't wear tights etc under trousers so they get teased if they do.
Most boys would prefer to be cold than teased.
Boys are often the victims of sexism but it is rarely noticed on MN.
MNers tend to care about their daughters but quite happily hang their sons out to dry - or to get cold in this example.

I don’t understand schools saying no to boots. I’ve just checked my DD’s school’s policy and it just says sensible, flat black boots below the knee. I did struggle to find school suitable ones this year that met the criteria of: black, flat, not patterned, mid-calf length… I ended up getting DDs the same pair each from Monsoon as that’s all I could find that met what I wanted. They have flowers on the side but very much appropriate for school.

Aren't they allowed tights? And we always wore boots to school and they could change out of them.

My daughter is also a keen footballer.. but I do think that it is much harder to kick a football in a pair of Mary Janes than it is in a pair of solid shoes, it hurts, the ball doesn't go as far and most likely in the wrong direction.. I think more girls would play football if they wore trainers all the time. I remember a picture of Prince George and Princess Charlotte with a football.. it made me think that we are hampering the chances of girls being interested in sport by dressing them as we do. (we being society on average.. not those exceptional girls who find their way to the football pitch, or other places, despite the barriers in their way)

DD doesn't start reception until next year but this thread has inspired me to look at the unform page of the school she'll hopefully end up at - it's a non-gendered list of clothes (shorts, trousers, dresses all together with no mention of boy or girl) and just 'black school shoes'. That's quite refreshing!

Lots of girls when they get to secondary school don't feel that this is a fair option though as they want to wear skirts and feel like they are being forced to wear the boys uniform.

My DD is 12 and is pretty alternative with style, she is wearing trousers now because she is pretty small and feels the cold but they are not boys polyester trousers, more black tracksuit material baggy and flared, 90s style but up until two weeks ago she was wearing the school kilt, fairly short with 40 denier tights and DMs, some girls buy laddered tights and the school accept it (they changed their policy on that last year). DD when she was at infant school liked wearing Mary Janes, I'd buy the thick soled ones but she was always in to fairy tales and would dress as a fairy all of the time when not in school, it came with an intense imagination and a dislike of all stuff that was 'for boys', she didn't want to be practical and she didn't want to go to school anyway so for a time we went with it. The compromises I found were very expensive Austrian made boots which she accepted as I showed her a drawing of an elf like fairy with boots on. It is not a disservice IMO to accept who your child is as an individual. I am way more practical with clothes although do share her romanticism, she has a brother and her Dad only has brothers so he had no clue about fairies and clothes that are impractical and flowing!

DD can't stand football or mixed Rugby and very much stands on the sidelines. Her p.e team players that are boys have a go at her about it, i.e "get in position", "stop standing about", which really annoys me as they have played their whole school life and DD hasn't but as the 'girls' football' has been pushed on to every girl in every school in the last 3 or 4 years, it is unacceptable to opt out. It is nothing to do with societal expectations as her older brother and Dad are keen footballers as are my brother and all his DC including his daughter but we play an annual family torment with a cup at the end (my DB's idea)every Christmas and ever since this has begun, DD has hated it and doesn't join in despite seeing that her aunt, Mum and girl cousin are playing. She is arty and a musician and just not in to sport, particularly team sport, nothing to do with shoes, all to do with personal interests/passions.

It's the opposite in our family, DD is wearing tracksuit bottoms and DS is wearing shorts (his choice) today. DD always wears thick tights if she wears a dress or skirt with the winter uniform.

Lots of girls when they get to secondary school don't feel that this is a fair option though as they want to wear skirts and feel like they are being forced to wear the boys uniform.

Completely agree because unisex just means male fit. It often looks frumpy and ill-fitting on growing girls and women. They should be able to wear clothes that suit their bodies without expectation or shame. I’m all for schools having expectations for uniform but they need to take into account that we live in a wet, cold and miserable country and children need practical clothes for break times.

I remember primary school would say wellies and boots had to be changed out of during the day. So you’d have to remember a second pair.

inclined to agree however; took my friends 3 yr old out the other day; in the cold and frost we went for a walk (in her pram) to the park. Would she put on a coat, no, would she put on her wellies - again no, would she allow her self to be covered in any way - no..... even when she was complaining it was cold on the walk - (friend had taken the coat and wellies) - she still wouldn't dress up to stop the cold, wouldn't allow the shoes to be put on, or the coat, or the blanket...

me; i'd have dressed the child and probably have had a nightmare doing so and a very angry reactive 3 yr old; my friend didn't, let her make her own choices and continued to offer the coat/hat/wellies as a solution but let her continue to refuse to be dressed; all the while the child was happy and interactive on the trip (aside from the odd mumblings about being cold) - different parents have different parenting styles and some kids are weird

I used to be the parent that fought the coat and boots onto DS2. Then we met another parent like your friend and I basically copied her. I instantly had a much happier child.

He still is in shorts most of the year now in his teens and I buy him a relatively low cost (but still waterproof/warm) coat each year despite the face he never wears it because his school (understandably) would consider it a neglect issue if he didn't have one. It gets donated to the school uniform bank every time he grows. If it's really, really cold he'll wear a hoodie. The coat is scrunched in the bottom of his bag the entire time.

The little girls i know don't dress like this.

They wear thick tights or trousers. Lots of winter boots (DDs have warm fur on). The boys are worse for wearing shorts well into winter!

The girls all have warm cardigans or jumpers, thick coats etc. The girls are imho more likely to wear warm hats & scarves.