To think we do girls a massive disservice?

[Sexnotgender]

Just dropped off at primary school, the vast, vast majority of girls are in stupid little Mary Jane type shoes with ankle socks. No jumpers.

The boys are in sensible waterproof looking shoes, long trousers and jumpers.

I stood next to a young girl waiting to go in and she kept saying how cold she was. I felt so sorry for her.

Our school has no uniform for shoes so mine all wear waterproof runners. I agree school shoes for girls are ridiculous. My daughter begged me for a pair of Mary Janes one year and they were wrecked after weeks of scooters and running around in puddles and wet grass.

I love a pair of Mary Janes!

DD wears a sensible cosy pinafore, polo shirt, thick woolly tights and a pair of black boots. I'd happily wear that myself and it's cosier than DS's trousers. I wish he could wear jersey dungarees!

At our school there's a unisex uniform, plenty of girls wear trousers, a handful of boys wear dresses or skirts when the mood takes them.

I work outside and buy men's clothes and workwear as standard now. It's so much better.

A nearby school to is absolutely unreasonable about their uniform which involves above the knee plaid kilt like skirts for girls bought from a single specialist supplier. Well above the knee for the taller girls.

They also object to the wearing of coats

Also it kind of goes with the child too. When my DD1 went to preschool, I sent her in 'boys' trousers and 'boys' shoes, and a jumper and thick coat. She was fine with it, until she noticed all the girls were wearing skirts and dresses and Mary Janes. So that's then what she wanted. And I went with it, because (a) I don't want her hating on femininity and (b) I do want her to feel she has control over her own body and have choices to an extent how she presents herself to the world.

So for reception it was patent MJs from Clarks and pinny dresses. When time came to buy her new shoes, she agreed with me MJs are rubbish at keeping you warm and dry and went for patent ankle boots. I am actually well in favour of the patent as it seems more waterproof and I don't have to polish it ever :P And now (just after I bought a bunch more pinny dresses) she's turned off them and only wants to wear trousers!

So I think societal expectations do play a part, as do parental expectations... but I also think girls aren't by and large stupid, and if given choice, and all the choices treated as morally neutral, rather than us feminist mums shitting on 'girly' things, in the end they make the compromises they're happiest and most comfortable in.

re boots for girls in winter. I suspect the arguments are:

They aren't needed (boys don't need them, they just wear more sensible shoes all year round)

They produce yet another extra expense for parents of girls, as they still need school shoes for out of winter. Peer pressure to have them.

Parents aren't sensible. The school says plain black ankle boots, no tassles. Before you know it Abby has black tassles, then Beyonce has silver ones, Clara has mid height, Dora has patent knee height. They sit on the carpet and play with the add ons (see also toys in shoes). etc etc. Then Elsa's go missing after PE and they cost £80 (because Fifi fancied them and stuck them in her bag and her parent aren't honest enough to return them).

OP YANBU and actually the boots piss me off as well - I work in a primary and though there are some girls in cosy wellies or snow boots, most of the boots are fancy ones that are a) not waterproof b) not warm and c) a nightmare to get on and off. None of the boys have this issue.

I get why parents buy this sort of thing, I really do, but I wish they’d think beyond the look and about the practicality!

Ours wore woolly tights (and chose her shoes, within reason) 🤷‍♀️

That's crazy. My primary aged kids wear skirts or a pinafore, thermal tights (they're lovely and fleecy inside, got them from Next), proper boots and they're got vests/a white t-shirt under their shirts on cold days plus their jumpers/cardigans on top.

Also hats, gloves and obviously a winter decent coat!

I wouldn't want to be outside for break or lunchtime not properly dressed for it or have to sit with soggy and cold feet all day because I had inappropriate shoes for the weather on so I'll not inflict that on my children.

It's poor parenting! The Mary Jane style shoes with socks are fine for warm weather but they're totally stupid for winter.

We've compromised by buying t-bar shoes, as DD refuses now to wear 'boys' shoes that cover and we refuse to buy stupid ballet pumps. I know it's because of what other girls wear and last time we went shoe shopping there was very little 'sensible' stuff marketed at girls.

I am fed up of this gendered kids' clothes shit.

Dismissing it as "bad parenting" still doesn't address "why" people are making these apparently "bad" choices. None of us exist in a vacuum where we make our choices off objective rational logic.

We are all influenced by our parents, our experiences growing up, our children's preferences, our financial situation, peer pressure on our children (which will stem from the influences on them and their families), our confidence, what is "the norm" where we live, advertising, TV/film, what is available in the shops... And we will go onto influence our children and their friends, and people around us. So I would say it is an US and a SOCIETy issue not just individual bad parenting. And if your circle and school and local area doesn't see what the OP sees then yay but other people will have a different experience.

The shoes thing really annoys me. DD started reception this year and when we went shoe shopping I couldn't believe how ridiculous the girls shoes were compared to the boys. The first sign of rain and their feet will be soaked. We managed to find one pair that was a reasonable compromise (similar style albeit completely plain but covered the whole foot) but it shouldn't be so difficult.

For the clothes, that's predominantly bad parenting. DD had the choice of trousers, skirts or pinafores for school uniform. She didn't like the trousers so has a mix of pinafores and skirts (nice warm, comfy jersey ones) but she wears thick tights under them at this time of year. Pinafores are actually quite good because with the t-shirt they add an extra layer to the torso before you even start. She also has a nice warm cardigan (the school cardigans are jumper material rather than knitted so are actually warm), then a coat and gloves. She does have a woolly hat but chooses not to bother with it most of the time and puts her hood up instead, which is fine and her choice.

There are lots of options for girls, and it’s not like they’re not available to buy. Parents know this, so it’s not like they’re forced in to putting little ankle socks on their daughters.

My DD has some thick tights on, so her legs are nice and warm. Girls can also wear boots/long socks/leggings/school trousers for school.

My DD does have a habit of not wanting to put her cardigan on, like this morning 🤦🏼‍♀️. So if you see my DD without long sleeves on, it’s got nothing to do with her being a girl at all. It’s simply because she doesn’t like wearing long sleeves sometimes. Girls definitely have the option to wear warm long sleeved tops for school.

They just live in leggings and jeans was my experience of having 2 small dds. I never struggled to find them comfy stuff at all and on the high street. They had trainers and wellies and warm coats. All had the same sets of decathlon waterproof trousers as required. And lots of mums of boys moan that their clothes are boring.

But in every school I know of girls can wear trousers and sensible shoes. It's about the choices girls (and sometimes their parents) make. My DD wanted to continue wearing Mary Jane style shoes at high school but it's a 45 minute walk, often in bad weather so I made her buy sensible, sturdy shoes. She also never wants to wear a coat (ongoing battle and I think it's the same with boys) and likes to wear her skirt as short as possible with thin tights, rather than nice warm woolly tights or trousers! It's all about fitting in and following the fashions.
I remember when she was at nursery she always came home filthy covered in paint etc so I put her in old, practical clothes. There were a couple of mothers that always sent their daughters in wearing ridiculously pretty, sparkly clothes, with uncomfortable shoes and complicated hairstyles. I saw the girls get told off if they were messy at the end of the day. Ok, I know I sound like a judgemental old busybody but really the girls looked so uncomfortable. The clothes weren't at all suitable for running around in. It's like all that mattered was making the girls look pretty.

Agree op. Choices for girls clothes does look flimsier. Especially at the cheaper end.

School don’t allow boots. Silly rule.

And it continues into adult clothes. Men’s t shirts, jumpers are much better quality. Thicker fabric and not cropped.

Re: boots - we went with ones like this and they’ve lasted us since Easter:

https://www.clarksoutlet.co.uk/etch-glow-kid/26162848-

light enough to have been worn all through summer too and easy to get on and off.

Stupid parenting is in fact a disservice children.

Shops sell short skirts and pretty shoes, because people buy them. In the same shops - all year round- you also find thick tights and longer skirts.

Then again, my nephew had his coat on in summer, but he’s not cold now it’s winter 😔.

Go figure 🤷🏽‍♀️.

Mine are in trousers from the ‘boys’ department as the knees last longer - looking at you, youngest daughter. Eldest daughter wears thermals under her uniform in winter.
Boots - DMs. They still destroy them. Funnily my sons clothes are pristine!

Summer they wear shorts from the ‘boys’ department. As they spend time playing football and doing handstands (looking at you again youngest daughter).

I have been asked so many times where I get their shorts from from other girls parents (usually as their daughters has asked for a pair) but no other girl wears them. So I do think it’s the stigma of wearing ‘boys’ clothes.

They still look very ‘girly’ with waist length hair, in plaits or bunches etc. On non uniform days they wear dresses or skirts and jumpers (with DMs 😂).

This is a subject which infuriates me. The imbalance between typical girls and boys clothing items even down to the underwear is absolutely ridiculous. And yes I could just buy all my children clothing from the boys section but the girls like pink and sparkles and love hearts and flowers etc. Although I do agree sending children to school in winter in skirts without thick tights and decent footwear is foolish.

I have 4 year old twins and have often bought them "matching" items of clothing from the boys and girls sections. The girls item even though it's apparently only meant to be a different colour or whatever is usually thinner, smaller, more flimsy, poorer quality. The arms are shorter, the top is shorter, the material is shit. Even socks which both say the same shoe size are noticeably smaller and thinner. I tried to get them both warm, thick, waterproof winter jackets recently for nursery as they spend a lot of time outdoors. Had zero issues finding one for my little boy. But my god the difficulty in getting one for my little girl of the equivalent quality was shocking. Apparently girls don't need to be warm or dry and even little features like the storm flap on a jacket, a decent hood or those extra elasticated cuffs inside the arms don't seem to be standard on girls winter jackets like they are on boys. And why do girls rarely get zips instead of stupid little buttons??

Or pockets!! Don't even get me started on pockets!!

I also love the schools that promote walking to school but don't allow children to wear practical footwear such as boots or trainers.

My daughter wears black boots in the winter months, thermal tights, and a warm thick jumper over her dress and shirt. We're in Northumberland so she has to dress appropriately for the weather

My girl won't wear boys shoes either. We are officially not allowed boots, but the school never enforce this and lots of little girls wear them. Last winter when we had that week in the minus temperatures, my girl was so cold I cracked and bought some lovely boots - patent and shiny, but fluffy on the inside. She wore them to death and I've bought the same again this year.

The older girls at our school all seem to wear black air force trainers like all the secondary school kids wear.

Mine wore trousers and boys shoes out of preference, for the exact reason they liked playing footie and playing in puddles, skirts and flimsy shoes are too impractical as well as chilly

They are available, but aren't allowed at lots of schools. Quite a few posters don't seem to understand that.
I've only one left at school, but they aren't allowed boots of any kind, can't bring wellies to school, fleece lined or thick tights are called leggings, so can't wear those either. No wearing of coats on the premises, so they have to be removed at the gate and carried round all day.

Hardly no girls wear trousers because they are so religiously policed by the staff, too short, too tight, too loose blah, blah. No joggers for PE, they can have super expensive school leggings, which no one likes as they fit badly.