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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think face scanning for age verification for porn is a great idea?

250 replies

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 11:16

The Government are considering how to prevent children from accessing porn and are looking into face scanning technology.

I think this is a good idea as we already use facial recognition for verification on banks etc and if people are adults they should not feel embarassed about their choice to watch porn so no problem.

Privacy campaigners are worried about potential for blackmail though. Wish they were as worried about men illegally uploading films of their OHs having sex with them....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67615719

IABU - I think porn doesn't need age verification/existing verification is good enough

IANBU - this is a good idea

A teenage boy head out of frame using a mobile phone (stock image)

UK porn watchers could have faces scanned

New draft guidance sets out how porn websites and apps should stop children viewing their content.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67615719

OP posts:
user1497207191 · 06/12/2023 14:45

@AnonnyMouseDave

If you turn off the wi fi they can use mobile data or simply look over their friends shoulder to look at their porn which their friends' parents haven't monitored.

Nail on the head. They also share the user name and passwords for wifi hotspots, i.e. where they have, say, Virgin, Sky or BT broadband at home that allows you to connect to other subscriber's wifi if they're in close proximity, or "open" wifi hotspots like at McDonalds, shopping centres, etc. You really can't stop a teen from getting online if they have a device.

Not realising how easy they can find ways to get online and how easy it is for them to access things they shouldn't (i.e. either illegal like live footie matches or immoral like porn), is the bigger problem here, and that's why it has to be the responsibility of the parents to understand how they access the stuff they shouldn't and properly understand ways to stop them or control them.

Parents really need to step up and take responsibility rather than the new default position of "someone else" being responsible!!

Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:47

rdlong · 06/12/2023 01:08

Oh please, get over yourself, an age test which used facial recognition needn't be the end to all personal freedom, after all the tech already exists and is on many devices and apps why are you not up in arms about that?

People who love to partake in the exploitation of women are very triggered at the thought of being seen accessing it, if that were me I'd have to wonder if I were actually living with any integrity at all or perhaps people just don't care about that as long as they can get their jolly's at someone else's expense?

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Well said! 💯

OP posts:
Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:48

AnonnyMouseDave · 06/12/2023 10:08

It is absolutely certain that there will always be a demand for and supply of porn, and even if no more was made there is almost infinite amounts already out there on hard drives and servers all across the world.

Given an 11 year old can make (illegal) porn using their own phone, and USB sticks exist to share porn even if the internet stopped working later today and was never restarted, this porn will always be distributed.

Weed and dodgy football streams are ubiquitous, and stopping physical things or a particular live match being shown live must be MASSIVELY EASIER than stopping all porn.

In my view it has to be all about the twin policies of monitoring kids access to the net, and making it absolutely clear to your 13 year old daughter that being fucked hard and fast from behind whilst being choked is NOT NORMAL, and that she NEEDS to make damn sure that before consenting to sex she knows that her potential partner also knows the same thing.

No-one wants to talk the birds and the bees with their kids, let alone go into detail about violent porn sex vs a gentle loving sensual and sexual relationship and how women reach orgasm... but sorry... there are far too many people on this thread willing to throw away our freedoms FOR ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT AT ALL, all to save themselves from having awkward conversations with their children.

No point trying to stop children watching the violent degradation of women, because men gotta wank, innit?

OP posts:
Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:50

AnonnyMouseDave · 06/12/2023 10:08

It is absolutely certain that there will always be a demand for and supply of porn, and even if no more was made there is almost infinite amounts already out there on hard drives and servers all across the world.

Given an 11 year old can make (illegal) porn using their own phone, and USB sticks exist to share porn even if the internet stopped working later today and was never restarted, this porn will always be distributed.

Weed and dodgy football streams are ubiquitous, and stopping physical things or a particular live match being shown live must be MASSIVELY EASIER than stopping all porn.

In my view it has to be all about the twin policies of monitoring kids access to the net, and making it absolutely clear to your 13 year old daughter that being fucked hard and fast from behind whilst being choked is NOT NORMAL, and that she NEEDS to make damn sure that before consenting to sex she knows that her potential partner also knows the same thing.

No-one wants to talk the birds and the bees with their kids, let alone go into detail about violent porn sex vs a gentle loving sensual and sexual relationship and how women reach orgasm... but sorry... there are far too many people on this thread willing to throw away our freedoms FOR ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT AT ALL, all to save themselves from having awkward conversations with their children.

In my view it has to be all about the twin policies of monitoring kids access to the net, and making it absolutely clear to your 13 year old daughter that being fucked hard and fast from behind whilst being choked is NOT NORMAL, and that she NEEDS to make damn sure that before consenting to sex she knows that her potential partner also knows the same thing.

Why not talk to your sons about pleasurable sex? They are much more likely to be watching/emulating porn. Why have you put the onus on your daughter to make it clear she consents, and not on your son on how to avoid being a violent rapist?

OP posts:
Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:54

SuePine69 · 06/12/2023 11:50

You think that anal sex is violence? Lots of people have anal sex, including gay men. How is it misogynistic?

I'm not familiar with the most popular forms of online pornography, I've looked at Japanese more than American. In Japanese videos there isn't a lot of anal or DP. There is a lot of 'bukkake' though, but it doesn't hurt them and it's not done out of hatred. So I don't know why you would call it violence or misogyny.

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Sue, lots of teenage girls now have to live with anal injuries due to having poorly enacted anal with boys. Teenage boys expect it, even though often neither they nor their girlfriends enjoy it. This has been linked to porn.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996

You might get off on watching actresses being bumfucked roughly but that doesn't mean its socially harmless and something kids should be watching

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996

OP posts:
Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:55

ntmdino · 06/12/2023 06:03

Use a little bit of critical thinking, please. Here, I'll help you...

Whether it works or not, the government proclaims it a fantastic success, and says that it's now going to require it for other age-gated services - probably starting with gambling, "to save the children", along with a glut of headlines about how online gambling is a scourge amongst the young. Again, just like porn, Mumsnet and similar sites will erupt with support for this fantastic measure. They change the to let them hang on to the identity data "for security purposes only", requiring a warrant.

Then..."social media is harming our children!", they bring in laws to prevent anyone under 16 accessing social media, and...oh look, we've got this great way to verify people's ages, facial scanning! Now, the #1 primary use of the Internet amongst 16-24s also requires facial scanning, fully supported by sites like this because "save the children!". At the same time, they require a legal licence for the distribution of VPN software, and require all VPN providers to log and track site access against users with the same justification, and they have to report all users' traffic habits to the government.

Quietly, in the background, they slip a change to allow "limited sharing of identity data amongst government departments and secure partners" into an unrelated law (that kind of wording already exists in the statutes for identity data, by the way, but they have no way to collect it at scale). Now they have linked identity data on the majority of UK citizens in that age bracket, which (over time) will increase to cover the majority of the entire population, forever.

Now, since most people have got used to the idea, they add it to the authentication process for accessing government services online as a convenience measure, optional at first and then mandatory after a few years.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you go about removing an entire country's privacy and anonymity on the Internet.

Don't believe it could happen like that, because people aren't stupid enough? Look at Brexit - sold to the public (successfully) as a way to stop the immigration problem and our flagging economy, both of which have only got worse (with no improvement in sight) and turned out to be a massive act of national self-harm which is still supported by huge numbers of the population despite delivering none of the supposed benefits 7 years down the line.

Edited
Show quote history

That's not critical thinking. That's extrapolation and catastrophising.

OP posts:
closingdownsale · 06/12/2023 16:01

It's a disastrous idea. The data will be, with certainty, hacked because it'd be the single most valuable collection of data on the world for blackmailing purposes.

It could have a terrible effect of society. They need to come up with something better.

The 23andMe DNA data site has just been hacked which seems bad enough, this would be worse

ntmdino · 06/12/2023 16:04

AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 15:55

That's not critical thinking. That's extrapolation and catastrophising.

Show quote history

Except...in case you don't recognise it (which you probably don't, because you don't seem to be particularly abreast of laws relating to privacy and technology) these things have all already happened in recent years, just missing facial scanning because the technology wasn't available yet. That's the progression of online identity management in the UK statutes which already exists and many people said was extrapolation and catastrophising.

All I did was paraphrase and add a couple of details to include facial scanning. It's just unenforceable at the moment because - until the advent of AI technology - there's never been any way to even attempt to verify unique identities.

TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 06/12/2023 16:05

Guavafish1 · 06/12/2023 02:20

I think credit card sign in is better

People get round that by using gift cards

Userxyd · 06/12/2023 16:10

Just ban porn- it's the rot in our society and has helped create the terrifying levels of sexual violence towards women (and increasingly children) that we have today.

Men should find a real hobby that engages and fulfils them and who knows maybe even one that contributes positively to society.

TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 06/12/2023 16:11

Userxyd · 06/12/2023 16:10

Just ban porn- it's the rot in our society and has helped create the terrifying levels of sexual violence towards women (and increasingly children) that we have today.

Men should find a real hobby that engages and fulfils them and who knows maybe even one that contributes positively to society.

Porn has been created and used for millennia, you won't be able to ban it. Plus banning something sends it underground and makes it more desirable and not under anyone's control.

ntmdino · 06/12/2023 16:14

Userxyd · 06/12/2023 16:10

Just ban porn- it's the rot in our society and has helped create the terrifying levels of sexual violence towards women (and increasingly children) that we have today.

Men should find a real hobby that engages and fulfils them and who knows maybe even one that contributes positively to society.

You make it sound so simple. How would you go about it, given that porn is accessible from anywhere on the Internet (which the UK government doesn't control) at any time, and is mostly hosted in places that are way beyond the UK's jurisdiction?

Bogdanoff · 06/12/2023 16:37

Userxyd · 06/12/2023 16:10

Just ban porn- it's the rot in our society and has helped create the terrifying levels of sexual violence towards women (and increasingly children) that we have today.

Men should find a real hobby that engages and fulfils them and who knows maybe even one that contributes positively to society.

So if I took a picture of myself naked would I be committing a criminal act? If I shared the picture with my OH would I be committing a criminal act? Or would he? Or would both of us? What if we filmed ourselves having sex? You would never be able to effectively draft a ban.

Also worth remembering the US banned alcohol and alcohol consumption went up. The UK banned James Joyce's Ullyses and it became more popular than ever. Bans don't often work very well.

FrippEnos · 06/12/2023 17:03

If the OP was really interested in children not seeing porn they would want to ban children from having smart phones and require parents to be legally required to put blocks in place on all internet accessible equipment owned by the family. (edit and schools, scouts, guide groups etc.)

But no we will once again have to use the internet unicorn.
I really wish that I could find that post.

AnonnyMouseDave · 06/12/2023 18:27

Why not talk to your sons about pleasurable sex? They are much more likely to be watching/emulating porn. Why have you put the onus on your daughter to make it clear she consents, and not on your son on how to avoid being a violent rapist?

You are right that sons need to be taught as much as girls do. Thought I stand by the idea that girls should be taught to be 100% clear about what they do and do not want and 100% clear about what they do and do not consent to.

Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 19:19

AnonnyMouseDave · 06/12/2023 18:27

Why not talk to your sons about pleasurable sex? They are much more likely to be watching/emulating porn. Why have you put the onus on your daughter to make it clear she consents, and not on your son on how to avoid being a violent rapist?

You are right that sons need to be taught as much as girls do. Thought I stand by the idea that girls should be taught to be 100% clear about what they do and do not want and 100% clear about what they do and do not consent to.

Come off it. If men are old enough to have sex, they are old enough to check if the woman is enthusiastically consenting.

OP posts:
Pinocolada · 06/12/2023 20:01

I think it is imperfect but anything that restricts access to porn for children is surely a good thing. You can educate your own children but you can't stop other children showing them things.

Equally if people are worried about their data it might reduce their use of porn with surely isn't a bad thing. The stats for the age people are exposed to porn for the first time is depressing. I also saw a stat that showed 5% of people who watch porn admit to doing it at work. Society is porn sick.

Surely any percentage drop on viewing porn where no one can be sure if they are watching exploitation or not can only be positive.

Yes some people will find work around but these are unlikely to be 9 year old children.

QuickDraining · 06/12/2023 20:36

May as well just neuter boys. Buy them train sets and airfix kits, or get them picking up rubbish or something. Anything to restrict access to porn... LOL.

Original poster
AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 20:55

closingdownsale · 06/12/2023 16:01

It's a disastrous idea. The data will be, with certainty, hacked because it'd be the single most valuable collection of data on the world for blackmailing purposes.

It could have a terrible effect of society. They need to come up with something better.

The 23andMe DNA data site has just been hacked which seems bad enough, this would be worse

Why on earth would the fact someone watches porn be blackmail worthy?
As said upthread, it's a normal male pasttime. Why be ashamed?

OP posts:
ntmdino · 06/12/2023 21:21

AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 20:55

Why on earth would the fact someone watches porn be blackmail worthy?
As said upthread, it's a normal male pasttime. Why be ashamed?

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Wrong again. Every credible study says at least a third of women watch porn on their own at least once a month, potentially as high as 55%.

On a bit of a roll here, aren't you?

closingdownsale · 06/12/2023 22:54

AdamRyan · 06/12/2023 20:55

Why on earth would the fact someone watches porn be blackmail worthy?
As said upthread, it's a normal male pasttime. Why be ashamed?

Show quote history

What 1950s planet are you on where you think only men watch porn?

Also, surely you understand that if your 20 year old daughter/your 70 year old dad or a school teacher or a politician received a blackmail with their face on it next to the video they were watching - that the chances are very high that they'd pay up in panic?

There's really no point in the "I'd educate my kids better/my dad never would/politicians shouldn't masturbate" argument because it's obviously impossible

theGooHasGone · 06/12/2023 23:21

This reads like the mad rantings of someone with far too much time on their hands. Saying they understand tech and also insisting that a banking app using Face ID for unlocking is scanning your face to see how old you are, hahaha!

Original poster
AdamRyan · 07/12/2023 09:01

ntmdino · 06/12/2023 21:21

Wrong again. Every credible study says at least a third of women watch porn on their own at least once a month, potentially as high as 55%.

On a bit of a roll here, aren't you?

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Show quote history

Links please. That's bollocks.

OP posts:
TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 07/12/2023 09:46

If you can't see why it's blackmail worthy you only have to look at the reaction those scam "we've filmed you while accessing porn sites and going to release it to your entire address book unless you sent us 30 squillion bit coin" create. Sex and sexual behaviour is private. People are entitled to their privacy. The blackmail potential comes from knowing that Dave down the road doesn't want his whole family knowing he has a fetish for clowns and custard. Would you want to know your dad wanks to clowns and custard? The suicide rates would go through the roof.

Original poster
AdamRyan · 07/12/2023 11:31

So a risk that a small number of porn users might be blackmailed if the tech was hacked means we should leave the status quo where children can access porn, and where young teens are learning what sex is from watching porn that features violence and degredation of women?

To quote a user up thread....and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we live in a patriarchy.

OP posts: