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Original poster

To think face scanning for age verification for porn is a great idea?

250 replies

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 11:16

The Government are considering how to prevent children from accessing porn and are looking into face scanning technology.

I think this is a good idea as we already use facial recognition for verification on banks etc and if people are adults they should not feel embarassed about their choice to watch porn so no problem.

Privacy campaigners are worried about potential for blackmail though. Wish they were as worried about men illegally uploading films of their OHs having sex with them....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67615719

IABU - I think porn doesn't need age verification/existing verification is good enough

IANBU - this is a good idea

A teenage boy head out of frame using a mobile phone (stock image)

UK porn watchers could have faces scanned

New draft guidance sets out how porn websites and apps should stop children viewing their content.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67615719

OP posts:
BoohooWoohoo · 05/12/2023 14:31

Won’t people use a VPN and pretend that they are in another country?

TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 05/12/2023 14:32

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 14:27

It always makes me laugh that we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc but porn is "too hard"

And that simultaneously children can get round Internet safeguards to watch it, so no point in those, but it's the fault of parents not putting better safeguards in place.

Kids are curious about the body and the changes their bodies are going through. Better body empowerment education, less discussion around kink and the act of sex and more around consent is needed.

My primary school age child barked at a relative who grabbed them for a hug without asking "stop hugging me I don't want to be touched!" Recently and I was really proud of them!

TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 05/12/2023 14:32

BoohooWoohoo · 05/12/2023 14:31

Won’t people use a VPN and pretend that they are in another country?

Put the id checks in as a prerequisite for signing up for a VPN service.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2023 14:34

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 14:27

It always makes me laugh that we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc but porn is "too hard"

And that simultaneously children can get round Internet safeguards to watch it, so no point in those, but it's the fault of parents not putting better safeguards in place.

What, exactly, do you mean by "can tackle"?

The reason I ask, is that nothing the UK government has done has in any way impaired the ability of UK users to access pirated content or view illegal sports streams.

The UK government has zero ability to do anything to internet content which is not hosted in the UK, which includes the vast bulk of internet porn. They also have no ability to prevent sites with content hosted in the UK simply moving that content to non-UK hosts.

It's not "too hard", it is impossible, but it wont prevent the government putting out meaningless platitudes in order to pander to concerns.

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 14:35

Where on earth do you get the idea that "we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc"?

I often watch football on a dodgy foreign screen WITHOUT USING A VPN and even though the game is being shown on ITV or BBC... because it's easier to find a dodgy stream than to go through the login process on the ITV website!

Ditto watching dodgy streams is easier than finding my partner's netflix login!

Weed is a better example. You physically have to grow it or bring it through customs. You have to transport it to local dealers and you then have to deliver door to door, do deals on the street, or have a stream of buyers turn up to your door 24/7 attracting massive suspicion. Despite this consumption keeps rising.

Years back (and I am sure it is much worse now) I had a friend who turned up a dealers flat to buy some weed only to find a police raid in process. The dealer just smiled and told him to come back 30 minutes later... which he did and made his purchase! How on earth does any sane person think free to distribute computer files can be policed when smelly physical drugs can't?

SharedAccountWithMySister · 05/12/2023 14:36

To do what you are suggesting would require a centralised database with everyone’s faces, and everyone would need to be refreshed/updated on a periodic basis.

The administration and security of such a solution would be enormous. And then you’ve got the privacy concerns on top - would you want your child’s’ face stored centrally?

BoohooWoohoo · 05/12/2023 14:36

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 14:27

It always makes me laugh that we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc but porn is "too hard"

And that simultaneously children can get round Internet safeguards to watch it, so no point in those, but it's the fault of parents not putting better safeguards in place.

Are we tackling illegal tv watching? It’s very easy to get a Roku stick with the software that allows access to movies on at the cinema, sport etc

randomchap · 05/12/2023 14:37

This won't stop kids accessing porn. VPNs are a very simple workaround.

This will give parents a false sense of security, thinking the porn is being blocked when it isn't.

It's a knee jerk, populist response to a serious issue that's not going to work.

Education, both at home and at school, is a far more powerful tool.

SuePine69 · 05/12/2023 14:39

Scaevola · 05/12/2023 11:45

Even the poorest performing device based filter will block that site

This is why I think the government needs to put resources in to educating parents on how to keep their DC safer online.

Show quote history

I don't have WiFi in my flat but if I take my laptop to a different part of the block I can use the communal WiFi. PornHub is blocked but I have found that there are other sites which aren't. I can only assume that they are the same as PornHub which I haven't had a look at for years.

The WiFi was turned off during the covid lockdown which was really annoying when you consider that libraries and cafes were closed. So I had no access to the internet and couldn't contact people, unless I wanted to sit in Boots carpark and use their WiFi. When I asked someone why our WiFi had been turned off they said they didn't know but it could have been because they realised that people could get porn on it.

My block is sheltered accommodation which means that we are all over 55 and there are no children. So there was no need to turn off the WiFi - and there is still porn on it! No PornHub, but other sites that are the same.

When I take a look at these sites there isn't the violence that you see on TV all the the time. No one gets shot, no one gets thumped. There is BDSM of course if you look for it. So to say that it is full of violent porn cannot be true, unless you have some definition of violence and misogyny that is different from most people's.

When I was a teenager there was Whitehouse magazine on the top shelf of newsagents. There seemed to be a fashion then for what could only be described as the gynaecological that you don't see so much these days.

starfro · 05/12/2023 14:41

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 14:27

It always makes me laugh that we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc but porn is "too hard"

And that simultaneously children can get round Internet safeguards to watch it, so no point in those, but it's the fault of parents not putting better safeguards in place.

I think you'll find that illegal football streams and films are viewed up and down the country by millions of people. It certainly hasn't been "tackled".

Rouleur · 05/12/2023 14:42

AdamRyan · 05/12/2023 14:27

It always makes me laugh that we can tackle pirating of films, illegal watching of football, etc but porn is "too hard"

And that simultaneously children can get round Internet safeguards to watch it, so no point in those, but it's the fault of parents not putting better safeguards in place.

It's quite easy to tackle the pirating of films and illegal watching of football because the content creators and distributors are completely on board with it - in fact they are the ones who are implementing the technology to do so, there is no law requiring them to do so - there is no "we" about it.

There's absolutely nothing in it for the porn companies to implement these regulations so the onus will fall on UK ISPs to block non-compliant sites which will actually be pretty effective at blocking younger web users from stumbling across porn sites. Just as nowadays it's actually quite hard to find torrents of films etc - you have to have at least a modicum of technical ability to get round the ISP blocks.

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 14:44

"It's quite easy to tackle the pirating of films and illegal watching of football because the content creators and distributors are completely on board with it"

If this is true why don't they do it?

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 14:48

There are youtube channels with tens of thousands of viewers, where Brits, sat in a room in the UK, are watching a stream of a match not available to legally view in the UK, literally talking about the game that they cannot be watching through a legitimate means. The people watching these youtubers (or more likely listening to them) are watching the same illegal streams but prefer the youtuber to the TV commentary!

As thing stand law enforcement cannot even deal with people who are watching illegal streams and telling literally tens of thousands of people that that is what they are doing and providing video evidence and leaving it uploaded on youtube!

Dotjones · 05/12/2023 14:52

TurnTheDamnedLightsOff · 05/12/2023 14:32

Put the id checks in as a prerequisite for signing up for a VPN service.

Show quote history

For UK-based VPNs yes, but how are you going to enforce it for those based overseas?

Rouleur · 05/12/2023 14:54

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 14:48

There are youtube channels with tens of thousands of viewers, where Brits, sat in a room in the UK, are watching a stream of a match not available to legally view in the UK, literally talking about the game that they cannot be watching through a legitimate means. The people watching these youtubers (or more likely listening to them) are watching the same illegal streams but prefer the youtuber to the TV commentary!

As thing stand law enforcement cannot even deal with people who are watching illegal streams and telling literally tens of thousands of people that that is what they are doing and providing video evidence and leaving it uploaded on youtube!

Law enforcement doesn't care about people watching "illegal" streams of football because they aren't doing anything illegal. It is not a criminal offence to watch football or a film that has not been licensed to your territory.

It's potentially both a civil and may be a criminal offence to actually distribute and monetise the stream, and rights holders certainly do go after those who do so, but watching dodgy football streams is no more illegal than owning a knock-off LV handbag.

Ardith · 05/12/2023 14:56

YANBU OP. It is a great idea.

And to the person who said no and that instead “the government needs to put resources in to educating parents on how to keep their DC safer online” you can fuck right off. Parents are desperate to keep their children safe online, but it is impossible: other children show 11 yr olds violent rape/torture porn on their phones on the school bus. Some children take dick pics and cyberflash the girls. How dare you tell parents that they need ‘educating’. We need age verification on porn to stop children being harmed, just like children aren’t allowed to have free access to alcohol or cigarettes.

When I lived in the UAE I tried to buy a replacement belly ring online. A website blocker popped up to tell me “You may not access this website because it is inconsistent with the values of the UAE.” Why can’t we have that in England for violent porn? Why?! Is the right of adult perverts to anonymously watch videos of naked women being tortured really more important than the right of children not to see it?

SharedAccountWithMySister · 05/12/2023 14:59

When I lived in the UAE I tried to buy a replacement belly ring online. A website blocker popped up to tell me “You may not access this website because it is inconsistent with the values of the UAE.”

And if you had used a VPN you could have accessed BellyRingsRUs hosted in a different country without any issues.

Rouleur · 05/12/2023 15:02

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 14:44

"It's quite easy to tackle the pirating of films and illegal watching of football because the content creators and distributors are completely on board with it"

If this is true why don't they do it?

Seriously? You honestly think that Neflix, Warner, Disney, and all the football leagues don't bother with territory-restrictive licensing and distribution agreements? That they don't approve of laws like the DMCA? Of course they do.

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 15:02

Law enforcement doesn't care about people watching "illegal" streams of football because they aren't doing anything illegal. It is not a criminal offence to watch football or a film that has not been licensed to your territory.

It's potentially both a civil and may be a criminal offence to actually distribute and monetise the stream, and rights holders certainly do go after those who do so, but watching dodgy football streams is no more illegal than owning a knock-off LV handbag.

My first paragraph I was careful to make it reasonably clear that it was the stream that was illegal, and I did not say that the watching of it was. My second paragraph was a bit carelessly written. I agree that the police can't do anything about people watching illegal streams, but the fact that people are literally building full time incomes off youtube channels that rely on the watching of illegal streams does kinda prove that stopping people in private watching whatever illegal content they want to might be hard.

Perfect28 · 05/12/2023 15:04

I think it would be better to put time, money and resources into education on the subject.

AnonnyMouseDave · 05/12/2023 15:10

Seriously? You honestly think that Neflix, Warner, Disney, and all the football leagues don't bother with territory-restrictive licensing and distribution agreements? That they don't approve of laws like the DMCA? Of course they do.

They are completely ineffective though - IMHO to the point that they might as well stop trying - thus proving the pointlessness of trying to stop porn.

IMHO it is all down to parents to monitor their kids and MORE IMPORTANTLY to edicate their kids, so that when their kids INEVITABLY see hateful disgusting porn featuring a jackhammer of a man strangling some poor teen while banging away thy know it is disgusting and not normal.

If completely stopping all internet porn were possible then we'd need a conversation about adult rights vs child protection, but that conversation is IRRELEVANT in a world where nothing can be done.

And even if all internet porn were stopped you can bet your life that files would be shared on USB sticks and the showing of dick pics by holding up a phone that took the picture would become more common.

randomuser2020 · 05/12/2023 15:12

This reply has been withdrawn

Removed at poster's request due to privacy concerns.

EnoughIsay · 05/12/2023 15:17

StrictlyComeSnoozing · 05/12/2023 11:35

It just won't work. You'd jump on a VPN and bypass the facial recognition thing no problem.

I think parents need to take more responsibility. Stop allowing your children to have devices that they can use privately, without ever being checked.

The facial recognition will be no more effective than the current WiFi controls are.

I completey agree with you on this BUT I also think parents do not have a chance.

Big Tech WANT our children.

When the conservative jewish groups in Israel said they need smart phones with banking apps etc but without the nasty stuff big tech was able to do it.

When China said - if you want to have a market here this is how you play - they were able to do it.

In both those examples there was politaical will behind the demands.

In the West there is no political will to get a fair deal for children/young adults and their parents. If they had to find decent solutions they could.

EnoughIsay · 05/12/2023 15:20

user1497207191 · 05/12/2023 11:53

When I was at school in the 80s, hard core porn, beastiality, kiddy porn etc was passed around the playground. Being supposedly banned didn't stop teenagers getting hold of it. The only difference is the medium, i.e. back then it was mucky magazines, now it's the internet. Go back into history and some Egyptian heiroglyphs in temples and tombs were pretty hard core porn!

Education is the key, not control. As other posters have said, being illegal hasn't stopped the drugs trade.

Show quote history

Fuck off with your use of the term kiddy porn.

On this site, where you read about the devastation of child sexual abuse on a daily basis the least you can do is be bloody respectful.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2023 15:24

We need age verification on porn to stop children being harmed, just like children aren’t allowed to have free access to alcohol or cigarettes

Fine, but how do you propose the UK government imparts age verification on sites that are not hosted in the UK?

This includes the vast bulk of the porn on the entire internet.

You are literally asking for the impossible.

The reason certain sites are blocked in the UAE is because despotic theocracies tend not to be bothered about things like censorship, or freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and so on, so it's relatively simple to continue to legislate to prohibit things which have always been prohibited in any case, thanks to 1. having a pliable citizenry, and 2. having a state apparatus that will happily beat to death, imprison without trial, torture, hang, behead and otherwise brutalise people who step out of line.

If you want to bring about blanket State censorship in the UK, fair enough, but that's what it would take to achieve what you are asking for, and you will also have to accept all the other machinations that come hand in hand with States that operate on that basis. Alternatively, you could just go live somewhere like China that already has this sort of thing up and working.