inequality - poor people cant seem to catch a break

[Ceci03]

Am thinking about my friend and her stolen car - as she doesn't have any money she bought the car on finance. They have said she is still eligible for the 3 years of payments even if insurance does not pay out, which they may not. A more well off person would have taken a bank loan or bought a car out straight. If she had some savings she could try and buy another car. She is spending money on taxis bringing her dds taxis to and from school. It just goes on and on. It's very hard to pull yourself out of these situations isnt it.

Everyone makes mistakes and of course it's easier for people with more money to bounce back, e.g. locked yourself out the house, easier fix for someone with a few bob, that's just life.

I've lost my passport, driving licence, multiple bank cards, and locked myself out twice in the past 2 years! I just forget things when it comes to objects all the time, one minute it's there and the next I can't seem to find it. Some people are just like that.

That's nothing to do with being poor, it's a stupid thing to do, but anyone could do it.

The problem is, if you're poor, the price you pay feels more significant and more difficult to put right.

You can't say it's about being poor, or about bad luck, when she left the bloody key outside. 100% her fault. 100% won't pay out.

It was a mistake on her part. Nobody has said otherwise. I think the pushback you are getting is that you are somehow equating that mistake to her financial situation.

I think if you would have reframed your original thought to something like “it’s unfair that poor people have to work much harder to recover from a mistake “ you might have received a different set of responses (well not all of them, but at least some, it is MN after all).

And to be clear, it does suck, and it is a tough spot for her to be in. I think that most people can and empathize with her situation.

I suppose the car has long gone but if its just a bog standard one as indicated then there might be a chance its tracked down. Scum bags do this but we arent as harsh as we should be on these pond life.

there might be a chance its tracked down

This is true, especially as it may well have been take by an opportunist who doesn't know how to move a car on rather than an experienced car thief.

I know what you mean in that rich people can afford to make mistakes, and poor people can't. What for a rich person might be a minor inconvenience, can become a life changing financial disaster for a poor person.

As long as you feel the same way when others are dishonest for things they think is valid too, then fair enough.

Unless you want to argue that putting yourself in a situation that makes you more liable to be a victim of a crime makes you in some way responsible for that crime.

I agree, I think if someone takes something that does not belong to them regardless of the 'opportunity' it is not the victims fault! Of course we all need to take measures to protect ourselves from suck arseholes but doesn't mean they get to take our thing!

There's always a lot of splitting hairs when people are arguing for what they call 'victim blaming' while at the same time inadvertently agreeing with the people they accuse of victim blaming.

"...putting yourself in a situation that makes you more liable to be a victim if a crime..."

"Of course we all need to take measures to protect ourselves from such [sic] aresholes..."

People who commit crimes are responsible for the crimes they commit. People who put themselves in situations... or don't take measures to protect themselves... can also take some responsibility or accountability for the role they played in being a victim of each crime.

Both things can be true on a case by case basis. Sometimes it's not the case. It isn't "victim blaming" to point out accountability for one's actions.

But OP, this is a scenario that is not covered by insurance.

If you leave your keys outside and accessible to others, your insurance is invalidated.

If your house is burgled and you'd left it unlocked or the key in the door you would not be covered by insurance.

This is not a scenario that is covered by insurance.

I'm not poor in ways I would define being poor in the UK, but if I'd loose my car tomorrow under similar circumstances I'd struggle to get another one that would do the job for me (daily commute of 30+ miles one way via motorway)
I couldn't have 2 bank loans to repay and a mortgage, a half decent standard of living plus paying for petrol and food.

there is a link between poverty and making poor choices. starting with food choices, learned coping skills, and less reliable support it's a rather complex issue.
you could say that due to the stress of poverty she made the mistake of leaving the keys in the door, and that due to poverty she lives in an unsafe neighborhood.
because a wealthy person living on an acre of land outside the city limits could leave their keys anywhere on their property without their car being stolen (generally speaking).
ps insurance wise keys in the front door might be fine vs keys left in the ignition.

I understand.

I'm quite shocked that the vast majority of posters in here don't seem to comprehend differences between their situation and your friend's.

The friend made a mistake - I expect most of us have lapsed and done something carelessly and then kicked ourself because of the outcome.

Some posters are being harsh, as though she deserves to be made even more skint than she already is.

To me the OP was just showing her friend a bit of sympathy and pointing out that if you're hard up events can affect you much more than if you've got a few bob.

To be fair, I got laughed out of a garage when I asked for finance options for a 3k car, saying no one would finance such a cheap thing.

I do want to know where people buy £500 cars, though, the one I had to buy last year was closer to 2k for a pile of shit, and it was the only one that price in my wider area.

OP, fwiw, yes, in many ways, being poor is shit and does cost a load more. Just not necessarily in the way mentioned here.

Not really about money is more about being a plonker. When it's your fault you just have to suck it up no matter how shit it is

She needs to look at Motability if her child has severe ASD.
My car is on finance and it was "pre loved", doesn't have to be brand new

If she hadn't locked her front door, or perhaps had left her bag inside the door and the door ajar, in a rush to get her child sorted... Would insurance pay out then? Surely if a thief goes into your property to get the key then they should pay out?

Not advocating fraud (although maybe I am for this scenario. Insurance feels like a scam half the time)... but unless she tells them the key is in the door, how would anyone know it wasn't the situation above?

@Ceci03 I'm sorry for your friend. Life isn't fair. Single parenthood is really hard and even harder when you have no money.

My £500 car was from our mot garage. It was a little 2001 one that had been used by the mechanics to drive people around, and they wanted rid of it! That was 7 years ago, and it's still going.

The £600 one (1998!) belonged to a colleagues mother-in-law, and she no longer wanted it as her husband had died. That was 2 years ago.

We've been lucky with them, yep,but I still see ones from 600 to 1000 on fb.

your friend could still claim and explain the circumstances. Its not like the key was left in the car. If they refuse to pay out, she can complain then refer to the financial ombudsman. Its free to refer and they do sometimes side with the customer even though most people would assume they wouldnt.
Most people on MN say they have a years savings and can make a cooked chicken last a week.

I'm quite shocked that the vast majority of posters in here don't seem to comprehend differences between their situation and your friend's.

How do you know what peoples experiences are? 🤔

you could say that due to the stress of poverty she made the mistake of leaving the keys in the door, and that due to poverty she lives in an unsafe neighborhood

You could do, but on the flip side someone working long hours in a stressful, high responsibility role could leave them in the door whilst rushing around after a long day at work. Wealthy neighbourhoods are also disproportionately targeted for crimes such as car theft, probably easy enough to figure out why! Lots of people are more likely to leave their keys in the door due to a myriad of reasons, sadly insurance companies will probably give similar considerations to all.

I think there are a lot of penalties for being poor - at the crux of it having less choice than someone better off
Eg if you don't drive and your nearest shop is a coop or corner shop you'll likely pay more for basics.
If you can't buy in bulk you might end up paying more
If you can't afford a season ticket you'll pay more on public transport (in some cases)
If you can only afford cheap clothes they might not be as good quality /waterproof/need replacing etc
If you don't have a good credit rating you may end up paying way more interest on loans etc.

But I'm not convinced the example in the OP is a good example of it

All insurance policies will state that such a claim will not be covered.

It's not a discussion or a negotiation. Some things are simply not covered.

The ombudsman will absolutely not touch this.

I had an accident last year. Annoyingly, I'd paid the car off with another loan, consolidating the car loan with some other debt. I'd been paying gap insurance up until 2 weeks prior to the accident. My insurer didn't pay out enough for me to replace like for like so I had to take the amount they gave me and a small amount of finance to buy a replacement car. I'm now paying that back along with the original (now consolidated) car loan.

It's shit. If I'd have waited a fortnight, I'd still have gap insurance. If someone else hadn't decided you give way to your left at roundabouts, I'd still have my car.

It's utterly shit but not a rich/poor issue. I'm not well off. The car that was written off was the first okish car I'd bought.