To be concerned about DM,s conspiracy theories and radical political views swinging full circle in the last couple of years?

[Soultree]

For the whole of my life my DM has been a fairly left wing liberal, nothing radical but on that side of the political spectrum. She also seemed to have no particularly strong views on issues in the news and media.

In the last few years she has really got into US news. Stuff I know that she has openly told me is that she is a Trump supporter, she believes the vaccine will kill you. She thinks we are all brainwashed and behave like sheep. The global elite are controlling us etc etc.

If she gets onto any of this, I quickly move the subject on and just say each to their own. I don't feel the need to get into a debate and I respect her right to an opinion.

Anyway she sent me a link of a post of something she thought was funny and it had her username. So I went on and this linked me to her profile and I could see all her posts and comments.

I'm honestly amazed in her beliefs, it's much more extreme than I could dream of. Stuff like the fires in Hawaii were created by laser beams, Joe Biden isn't Joe Biden and he wears a mask, Global elite are trafficking children, we are being gassed by planes dropping stuff. So much more but you get the picture.

Could this be dementia or is it just her right to have her own views. In reality she lives in a small town in the UK, she can't do any damage but I feel sad that her retirement seems to have deteriorated into this way of thinking. I can tell she thinks I'm a fool re her Covid beliefs. I'm not strong either way but I did get vaccinated.

Would you keep quiet or mention something? I don't need to say I have seen her posts, things crop up all the time like when she texts me videos of Trump saying he gives excellent advice on how to raise kids! I just laugh it off but maybe I should be challenging her?!

Challenging her wouldn't do any good and may cause her to push you away. Away from politics, etc, how is she? Does she have RL friends?

I work in, amongst other areas, deradicalisation. This is - I’m sorry to say - a textbook case of modern radicalisation through online conspiracy theories. Everything you’ve described there is Q-adjacent and whilst I appreciate it might seem bonkers, trust me, these are pretty mainstream in current conspiracy world.

The isolation is a pretty major factor here. I’ll assume that she spends a lot of time online but has very little in the way of understanding media literacy or how the algorithms work (most digital models reward controversial content, thus conspiracies exploding).

It isn’t dementia - or if she has it, the dementia is incidental.

It can be very very difficult but connection is the answer. There are good resources out there, even just to help you understand. Things like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/s/qzorChICKr

No advice I'm afraid but these views are widely held. I don't want to recommend looking up Freemen of the Land but there are a lot of people out there including very intelligent people who believe this nonsense.

her beliefs are her beliefs. I think the Trump thing is fine, I mean he was elected once and still has a strong following so she’s in good company there. As long as she’s not pushing it down everyone else’s throat I wouldn’t worry.

you only know her views because you looked her up so she must be able to hold it down a bit for the sake of her relationships.

@itwasntmetho this is painfully naive. She may well be in good company, as you say, but it won’t be good for her. The conspiracy spiral isn’t such that people who are sucked in believe one or two weird things, it means they’re constantly exposed to more and more, and the people peddling them - who know exactly what they’re doing - can press their own agenda. Just go on the antivaxx telegram groups, of which there are thousands, and you’ll see how quickly it devolves into racism, homophobia and misogyny. And that’s just the anti-vaxx stuff, let alone everything else…

The fact is that she is at risk of spiralling away from reality, and the more time she spends on YouTube or whatever she’s consuming the worse it’s going to get if no one helps her.

Thanks for the replies, she has quite a few real life friends and family, although lives alone. She does try to influence me with her newly discovered views but I move the subject on and never get into topics that are controversial to her.

Even seemingly innocent topics like the flu jab are now taboo. She also believes we are being injected with toxins during the flu jab.

Some of the posts are sexist and racist too. we know Trump holds these views so I guess it tallies with that.

Her views don't match the reality of her life and her loved ones, she grew up in a racially diverse area and has many long term friends from a variety of backgrounds. She has close family members who are disabled.

I'm not sure why the focus on US media but every single person she mention is an extremely right wing person with dubious connections.

I guess she is on a forum writing about me and why I'm a sheep and how can she help me?!

She blamed a close relative for their own death as they had the jab. That's the one that hurt the most. I guess it's her choice but it creates a division between us as I am constantly steering away from topics that activate her and worrying about her wellbeing.

You're not alone, I know a few people whose parents have gone this way. The answer is de-radicalisation through reducing internet use and getting out in the real world again.

Q Anon.
A very great number of people believe in this.

It's a very strange conspiracy theory.

Does your mother also talk about draining the swamp?
I'm not sure what you can do about this. It's brainwashing.

Part of the issue is that sometimes these mad conspiracy theories contain a small grain of truth but that little grain is then blown up and a whole bunch of other theories are hung on it. For example, there's legit cases of Covid jab injury now going through the courts and a number of people have suffered because of it but to a conspiracy mind that equates to 'the government is deliberately poisoning all of us'.

If it were me, if she's got good friends and family and isn't isolated, I'd be inclined to not give it any oxygen. There's no point in trying to argue her out of it.

However the line for me would be comments that are racist or sexist as that's causing direct harm to people. That's the point where I would remind her of her previous views and try and show how that's harmful.

I've been through this/ still going through this.
It starts off with family innocent stuff and draws them in.
Even when you can evidence and prove that it's not true, they refuse to believe it and discount it quickly.

I want to keep a relationship with my d relative, this isn't them. They have been drawn in and are now part of a community that validates each other. I don't think that they will be easily extracted, although blocking certain accounts helps. I get told that there is nothing to watch, it calms down for a month or so, and then flares up again for a few more months while the platforms catch up.

I see them regularly.
I gently tell them that disagree and why.
I leave if they start shouting.
I hold my ground, insist on being heard and ask them to show me the same respect I give them by listening to me.

Most importantly, we agree to disagree, always leave with a hug and a change of subject
I think of it as a mental illness and treat it sympathetically. Like all illnesses, I long for recovery.

It's so bizarre when this happens. It happened to my friend - she's in her 40s, definitely not dementia. She's got lost down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.
What makes me laugh is they call us sheep yet they believe any nonsense they're told!
Sorry, I have no advice. You can't make her see sense sadly. I'd keep an eye on it because I would worry about dementia with an older person. Look for other signs too.

Oh that’s hard @Soultree. I’ve got a family member who is going down a similar route though a lot younger. In their case it’s a combination of social isolation, learning disability and mental illness making them very vulnerable to brainwashing.

My response was to not have those convos with them and let them think what they want but they have latched on to my mother, who is showing signs of cognitive decline, and started trying to convert her to absolutely batshit theories so we’ve now got to tackle it head on.

I saw a video on Reddit of the JFK assassination a few days ago

When you take in to account that LHO was behind the car when he shot JFK, why does JFK's head rock firstly towards where LHO was when he was shot the second time?

You can clearly see the shot comes from the opposite direction of where LHO was which rocks his head towards LHO

Not all conspiracy theories are crazy, this one has evidence to disprove the official narrative

JFK wanted to disband the CIA and then gets killed, coincidence?

@Tukmgru You sound amazing. Have you thought of applying to be the next PM? 🌻

@Tukmgru makes an important point about digital literacy — it’s likely the OP’s mother lacks the ability to critically evaluate online sources, and to understand how algorithms work in terms of showing her more material that reflects and exacerbates her views. I think it’s worth pointing out some of this.

My own mother, almost 80, has a non-internet version of this in that she thinks things that are on the radio or in the newspaper ‘must be true’, with no understanding of bias, political affiliations, PR etc, and unfortunately got hooked on a local shockjock with a racist agenda cloaked under a guise of ‘sturdy common sense and fairness’. I did things like get her to listen to the way the same incident was covered by different stations, and in different papers. Not sure it’s made that much difference…

No comment🙄

Because he was in a moving vehicle, and had just been shot.

Revisit basic physics.

You have to walk away and disengage. I have a close relative who has fallen down the same rabbit hole and been there for 2 or 3 years now. You can't influence or change them you can only protect your own space and accept it will change your relationship with them.

I put it down to a mixture of being poorly educated, bored since retirement and anxiety. My family member has always been a bit gullible and easily led, so maybe it's also an element of no strong leadership on society too.

It’s frightening isn’t it? And thanks to @Tukmgru for the explanation and for the work you do.

I have two friends (sensible, highly educated women in their early 50s) whose views have polarised in an alarming way. Neither of them proper tin foil hat stuff just obsessed focus on a couple of very specific things which have dominated everything they talk about.

In one case it’s all about crystal healing woo with an antivax tinge. Not extreme but worryingly anti science and dogmatic. In another it’s a total obsession with the trans debate (to the point that every conversation is brought around to this topic).

I think a lot of this has to do with the way social media has changed the way debates in the public sphere take place. Everything is so polarised and people get drawn into ever narrowing circles in a self affirming echo chamber.

I do worry that younger generations will grow up without the critical thinking and the ability to absorb alternative perspectives to that of their own tribe.

Sorry to hear your mum had gone through this. It sounds worrying (and highly irritating).

Tell me you made this post ironically, just to prove the kind of conspiracy-minded underthinking that the OP is worried about in her mother.

I don't CARE how Kennedy was killed. It was 60 years ago. Yes, it arguably changed US history in some ways, all similar events do. Yes, maybe his political opponents were behind it. Proving this would make zero difference to today's world.
Mostly what lies behind these theories are nasty views about minorities ime

It would be great to have you on an ask me anything thread. My sister has gone down this same path. A friend too. Both intelligent and rationale people with science degrees. It blows my mind how far away from my world view they have gone. One of them is raiding young children. It’s frightening. My sister in particular has become incredibly racist and homophobic.

Sorry meant to reply to poster you replied to, @L1ttledrummergirl

My friend has a doctorate and a science degree. It’s not about education. She’s intelligent and compassionate, yet has been radicalised into some very dubious viewpoints. Some of which have a grain of truth so it’s really hard to dismiss it completely.

My sister has a science degree but has always been prone to take the anti establishment stance.

Im at a loss.

A lot of people (myself included) have argued the left and the right will become so extreme they will meet and create a circle. They have - look at the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Gender politics reinforces outdated stereotypes.
Disenfranchised communities are seeing the effects of mass uncontrolled migration and, whereas previously they'd be effing and blinding and letting steam off down the pub, they're instead feeding their loop online to a wider audience.