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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

This is more of a WWYD when non resident parent forces secrets

27 replies

BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 19:31

10 year old in tears today because Dad made them promise not to tell Mum they're playing 18 rating games.

10 year old feels a snitch and a liar for going along with Dad and then telling Mum.

WWYD?

OP posts:
Lex345 · 01/12/2023 19:53

Erm...WTAF...I would go absolutely ballistic at my 10 year old being allowed to watch or play anything rated 18+.

Really, really should not be putting the poor kid in the situation to keep secrets from Mum either.

Was the 10 year old playing the game? Or was Dad playing the game with child present? I would be pretty annoyed about this to be honest.

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:12

Erm...WTAF...I would go absolutely ballistic at my 10 year old being allowed to watch or play anything rated 18+.

I was certainly distressed about it, for my child's sake but I have learned that any complaint I make falls on deaf ears. Worse than that, social services don't want to know.

Really, really should not be putting the poor kid in the situation to keep secrets from Mum either.

I’ve always informed DC that any adult saying you can't tell Mum is not right unless it is a birthday or Christmas surprise. But that doesn't help: my child feels responsible and worse than that, guilty for informing.

Was the 10 year old playing the game? Or was Dad playing the game with child present? I would be pretty annoyed about this to be honest.

Both. 10 year old was invited to play the part and then hand over controls when it got (in DC's own words) "chaotic", meaning he did the killings. When the older sibling entered the room they both pretended it hadn't happened.

I am annoyed by more distressed and few helpless. School is aware and thinks everyone is doing it so it's normal. My DC keep talking about it to me which gives me the indication they are also not okay with it, even though they try to protect their Dad.

I honestly don't know how else to protect my children and the worst past is it's from their father.

OP posts:
AlmostAJillSandwich · 01/12/2023 21:17

Making them lie and keep secrets isn't on, but he is also equally their parent and has the right to decide he is okay with them playing these games when they're with him, so there really wasn't any need to try to make the child keep secrets. As a separated parent this is going to come up more than once when you both have different ideas of what is or isn't appropriate, you can only set the "rules" when they're with you.

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:19

AlmostAJillSandwich · 01/12/2023 21:17

Making them lie and keep secrets isn't on, but he is also equally their parent and has the right to decide he is okay with them playing these games when they're with him, so there really wasn't any need to try to make the child keep secrets. As a separated parent this is going to come up more than once when you both have different ideas of what is or isn't appropriate, you can only set the "rules" when they're with you.

You make it sound like you're choosing flavour of ice cream.

Sorry it is not okay to have a 10 year old play 18 games?!

Isn't it damaging?

OP posts:
Onceuponaheartache · 01/12/2023 21:21

My ex tried similar. Dd knows that surprises for birthdays etc are fine but secrets are not allowed. So she knows she isn't betraying anyone.

Ultimately if your ex won't listen to reason there isn't much you can do except encourage your 10 year old to refuse to play games they know aren't age appropriate amd to keep talking to.you.

Lex345 · 01/12/2023 21:22

I would be very worried as well-digital wellbeing is a hot topic in schools so I am surprised this isn't being taken more seriously.

Co parenting and having different styles is fine.

Irresponsible parenting and ignoring safe age limits is not. If the child was a teen, I would be less worried but we are talking about a primary school age child. This could be very emotionally harmful.

Do the DC actually want to play this game? From your description, I am not convinced...

Santaiswashinghissleigh · 01/12/2023 21:25

Ime df's who make dc keep secrets are dangerous men. Exh had a convinced sex offender playing Xbox in ds's bedroom.. In front of Cafcass he declared ds a liar.. Sadly the authorities believed exh.. Damaged their relationship long term. Until ds was old enough to realise df was a twat but immense damage by then...

Hankunamatata · 01/12/2023 21:25

You would be surprised how many kids in last year of primary (10/11) are paying gta and call of duty. My 12 year old is currently ostracised at high school as I won't let him play these games

Rjahdhdvd · 01/12/2023 21:25

I think you just have to be on repetition saying that they will never be in trouble and secrets shouldn’t be kept from each other. We’ve had this and we also think carefully about how to talk to the other parent about it and whether it’s worth it knowing the distress it will cause for DC. Sometimes it’s not worth confronting the other parent about to protect DC from the aftermath of that; it’s something you have to weigh up. Is the issue significant enough to bring up knowing that DC may be very upset by it

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:26

From
The information I have, they only want to to please Dad and to feel grown up and important, not because the game is of interest or they like killing.

Their friends at school aren't playing the same 18 games and if they were it might have more pull.

OP posts:
Lex345 · 01/12/2023 21:28

Do they have a favourite (age appropriate) x box game they could take with them to Dad's and tell him they want to play this with him? (Sort of a subtle-I want to play with you Dad, but not that game?)

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:29

Hankunamatata · 01/12/2023 21:25

You would be surprised how many kids in last year of primary (10/11) are paying gta and call of duty. My 12 year old is currently ostracised at high school as I won't let him play these games

It is not either of these games.

It may sound hypocritical but it feels different if they're led by an older sibling completed to being encouraged by a Dad who just wants to break as many rules as he can

OP posts:
YNK · 01/12/2023 21:30

BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:26

From
The information I have, they only want to to please Dad and to feel grown up and important, not because the game is of interest or they like killing.

Their friends at school aren't playing the same 18 games and if they were it might have more pull.

You are reading red flags correctly!

Contact SS for assessment urgently - this is abuse!

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:30

Santaiswashinghissleigh · 01/12/2023 21:25

Ime df's who make dc keep secrets are dangerous men. Exh had a convinced sex offender playing Xbox in ds's bedroom.. In front of Cafcass he declared ds a liar.. Sadly the authorities believed exh.. Damaged their relationship long term. Until ds was old enough to realise df was a twat but immense damage by then...

This many is also under police investigation for the same.

OP posts:
Rocksonabeach · 01/12/2023 21:31

Firstly get it in writing

eg text to x

Sam came up very very upset about the video game you were playing and that you encouraged him to play. It involving killing people. Can you reassure us that Sam will not be exposed to anything above his age rating whilst with you?

or words to that effect

then log it with social services : school : Gp every single time - and the side effects/ eg mental health, dreams, upset etc

create a pattern and log it all and then if you don’t have a court order - stop contact and explain why -

support your child, empower them to say no, that you aren’t cross at them, thank them for telling you and talk about what they saw, how it made them feel, ask them what they need etc

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:32

Rjahdhdvd · 01/12/2023 21:25

I think you just have to be on repetition saying that they will never be in trouble and secrets shouldn’t be kept from each other. We’ve had this and we also think carefully about how to talk to the other parent about it and whether it’s worth it knowing the distress it will cause for DC. Sometimes it’s not worth confronting the other parent about to protect DC from the aftermath of that; it’s something you have to weigh up. Is the issue significant enough to bring up knowing that DC may be very upset by it

This is exactly what has happened in the past: he's taken it out on them.

It's all part of the clever plan to have complete power and control that abusers use, but as usual I am as helpless as the children.

Only, as their mother I want to do all I can.

OP posts:
Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:33

Lex345 · 01/12/2023 21:28

Do they have a favourite (age appropriate) x box game they could take with them to Dad's and tell him they want to play this with him? (Sort of a subtle-I want to play with you Dad, but not that game?)

They do both, but more the 18+ stuff.

The ex always said proudly that when he divorced me he can do whatever he wants either way the DC, and he sure does.

He doesn't seem to care whether it's damaging them or not.

OP posts:
Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:40

Thank you to the two posters advising social services and mentioning court order. I can't quote you because you already quoted me, but I want to talk to you about it.

First off, SS wrote in court documents they have concerns about his parenting but they don't think it's enough to deny contact.

Secondly, there is a court order which makes it even more difficult.
I could tell GP etc, but I spoke to the NSPCC who were concerned and said to do to school to put in psychology support for the children. One school felt it was normal and I therefore felt unsupported, and the other was supportive but has their hands tied.

The DC say they're okay with it but they keep telling me it's happening which makes me think they're not. Also, DC aged 10 was weeping with such sorrow when telling me it's a secret they have failed to keep for their Dad.

But if school or SS ask DC if it's a problem they're likely to say no, partly because it's sold to them as 'big boy stuff' and they want to impress Dad, and partly because they don't want Dad to get into trouble (their exact words).

I feel so desperately trapped.

OP posts:
Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 21:42

Rocksonabeach · 01/12/2023 21:31

Firstly get it in writing

eg text to x

Sam came up very very upset about the video game you were playing and that you encouraged him to play. It involving killing people. Can you reassure us that Sam will not be exposed to anything above his age rating whilst with you?

or words to that effect

then log it with social services : school : Gp every single time - and the side effects/ eg mental health, dreams, upset etc

create a pattern and log it all and then if you don’t have a court order - stop contact and explain why -

support your child, empower them to say no, that you aren’t cross at them, thank them for telling you and talk about what they saw, how it made them feel, ask them what they need etc

I’ve told SS at the same time as telling them even worse stuff.

They only documented they have concerns about the father's parenting but they didn't recommend even supervised contact.

I felt they let the children down because of this but also understand they see much worse and probably have a different threshold.

OP posts:
RaspberryJamTart · 01/12/2023 21:48

You could seek a binding agreement, I forget what it's called, but it's an undertaking that X behaviour will not happen around the children. If this is breached it would be contempt of court.

ScarboroughHair · 01/12/2023 21:55

I think most people would agree it's really shit for your ex to encourage your child to play these games and lie about it.

I also think you will get nowhere in court or with SS about this. It's both my (professional) experience and your experience so far that this will be classed poor parenting, but not at any kind of threshold that will get contact reduced. I would give up pursuing this as I'm afraid it will lead nowhere whatever the moral rights and wrongs.

Given that, all you can do is encourage open dialogue with your child so they feel they can be honest without repercussions, and offer them emotional support if they are troubled by what they've seen. And whilst 10 is too young to reasonably expect it, as they get older, you can teach them how to say no to their father and draw boundaries - so they can choose not to see him or to leave a visit if he is pushing them into something they don't want.

Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 22:53

RaspberryJamTart · 01/12/2023 21:48

You could seek a binding agreement, I forget what it's called, but it's an undertaking that X behaviour will not happen around the children. If this is breached it would be contempt of court.

We had an undertaking last year and he breached it with no repercussions.

I’ve lost all faith on the law to be honest.

OP posts:
Original poster
BeyondMeasure · 01/12/2023 22:56

ScarboroughHair · 01/12/2023 21:55

I think most people would agree it's really shit for your ex to encourage your child to play these games and lie about it.

I also think you will get nowhere in court or with SS about this. It's both my (professional) experience and your experience so far that this will be classed poor parenting, but not at any kind of threshold that will get contact reduced. I would give up pursuing this as I'm afraid it will lead nowhere whatever the moral rights and wrongs.

Given that, all you can do is encourage open dialogue with your child so they feel they can be honest without repercussions, and offer them emotional support if they are troubled by what they've seen. And whilst 10 is too young to reasonably expect it, as they get older, you can teach them how to say no to their father and draw boundaries - so they can choose not to see him or to leave a visit if he is pushing them into something they don't want.

We've had really open discussion tonight between the siblings as they also have been told to keep secrets from one another. You can see by the various reactions, they each thought they were privy to some kind of special secret with their father. Transparency can sometimes be such a gift. It hasn't been a witchhunt against their Dad; I have been clear to continue to discuss his good points - as well as this difficult one - but the problem is, being children they obviously want to push boundaries and this is one way they want to feel more grown-up than they actually are. So this means that the likelihood of them wanting to say no is reasonably low, even though ironically both have said they wouldn’t allow it for their own children!

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 01/12/2023 23:09

Insist that the school put in mental health support even if it's a mentor kids crack eventually they tell eventually

Children's services can't do a thing about this from experience I did get support from them when ex was under investigation for something else she could humiliate him into stopping but couldn't actually order him too (the kids were five and two and he was putting the five year old on 18+ games which distressed him) she have him a dressing down in front of everyone telling him her 17 year old wasn't allowed such games what on earth was he thinking etc etc this coupled with scandalised looks from everyone he was trying to impress (he was "the BEST parent apparently") made him stop doing it at the time he did make ds keep secrets later on ds ended up breaking down these days ds1 has mental health difficulties and no dad involved in his life currently

RaspberryJamTart · 02/12/2023 09:23

@BeyondMeasure how sad, especially as if (and I get that your DC are older so wouldn't happen) you witheld visitation for this reason, you would probably be completely castigated.