to finally want to cut contact?

[hairbearbunches]

I have a very difficult relationship with my family in as much as they make no effort whatsoever to be in my life. It's a very longstanding situation, pretty much since I went to university in 1992. They never invite me to stay, but always seem pleased to see me when I go and visit them. They never invite me to birthdays or Christmas etc and although my parents have been to stay with me a few times for the latter, have turned down the invitation more often than they have made the journey (i live 250 miles away). My sister still lives in the same town and has never invited me to stay at her home once, or shown any inclination to get together for lunch, coffee, shopping etc. In order to have a relationship with my niece, I have had to make the journey to pick her up, drive her back to where I live and then do the journey in reverse, a 1000 mile round trip. There are too many examples to mention but I have realised this year, in a lightbulb moment, that what I thought was a relationship was actually just me running round and making all the effort and them sitting there and watching me do it. They are a pleasant enough lot but are very insular. We had a very insular childhood to the point of it being claustrophobic for me. Part of me wishes that I had known when I went to University I would be making a choice between an education (and a bigger world) and my family, I would have seen it for what it was, run like the clappers and never glanced back, probably having counselling to sort myself out.

Anyway, my Dad died very recently and it has made me want to sort the situation out once and for all. My mother is not going to come and visit me on her own. She's mobile, has her faculties etc. It is probably one of the easiest train journeys in the country, despite the miles involved. She won't do it on account of 'having no confidence'. She is, and has always been, extremely weak, and ties herself in knots about what other people think. I had a relationship with 'my parents', not an independent one with either my mother or father.

It has caused me a lot of mental anguish over the years and I have lost friends I should probably have kept hold of if they've remotely treated me in a similar way. I haven't given them the leeway a friendship should have because I haven't had the emotional bandwidth to be with other people who, for whatever reason at the time, weren't making what I saw as an enough effort. I have tried so hard to get my family to do more stuff which would make them a bit more outward facing, they literally go nowhere and do nothing other than watch tv. A narrative was created by them very early on whereby if I tried to bring anything up I got a 'we know what you're like' or a 'you speak your mind, you're not like us' and the issue would be shut down. They hate confrontation and are happy to blame me for any turbulence that occurs. I have tried to explain how them not having an active part in my life makes me feel but they look at me blank faced.

Cutting contact seems like the nuclear option, but they make me feel so bad about myself I've not lived the life I should have lived. I've spent so much time trying to have a relationship with them and I should have put that effort into other relationships. Some people seem to be able to get on with difficult families but a family who make almost zero effort is a hard one to deal with. Well, it is for me anyway. I've been doing it for 30 years now and I'm really tired. My Dad dying has been a catalyst. I had a suspicion I might feel like this but wasn't really sure. I had a long chat with a friend who was candid enough to say that I'll probably feel relief when my mother also dies but I want to feel relief now.

I genuinely don't know whether I should just be sucking it up and getting on with it. I don't know whether it's me that is the problem, and not them. DH says to call it a day, but he's a bit immature emotionally sometimes, although we've been together long enough for him to see the dynamic up close and he thinks its toxic without them even realising or meaning it to be. He also thinks nothing will change and I'm not really viewed as a member of the family, because in their minds I moved away. It's almost like I'm a distant cousin, who sometimes drops in on them for a cup of tea on my way to somewhere else.

I should say at this point that there's always two sides to a story and I'm sure my family have their own version of how we are, but has anyone else been in a similar situation? And is it unreasonable to want to let go completely of all the pain it causes me, simply because they're family?

Sounds like your husband has them sussed. He’s close enough to see what’s happening but not emotionally entangled, so he can see the situation clearly.

You don’t owe anything to a family that has made you feel bad about yourself all your life. You tried very hard to have a reasonable relationship with them and they didn’t reciprocate. You’ll probably feel much better if you stop making all this effort and being met with nothing in return. Time to do what is best for you.

Tough one. It’s a big deal to cut contact. Have you told them how you feel? And that your on the cusp of cutting contact? They might just think - she’s moved so she doesn’t mind coming home and it’s a massive oversight on their part? If you haven’t tried communicating first I’d say try that as a step one.

@FictionalCharacter Many thanks for your reply. It's very much appreciated. I spent some time looking at other not dissimilar threads this morning (I'm new and still working my way around) and pinged off from there to google and found a page with a very detailed account of family scapegoating and what it means to be that scapegoat in practice. It is an absolute perfect example of the situation I am in. It has helped me enormously. I am not going mad, I am not the bad person, and I am also never going to be able to change the dynamic. I feel like a weight has been lifted. Thanks again.

@Direstraightsagain Thanks for your comment, very much appreciated. I think that ship has long sailed. The truth is it's still in dock with no intention of sailing anywhere. After reading an article on scapegoating, which I now believe is what has been happening here, I don't think there is an alternative to cutting all contact for the sake of my own mental health. It's a toxic situation and unlikely to ever change. I agree with you about cutting contact being a big deal, it's not a decision to take lightly but I can't see a different way forward. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

Can't you just be low contact? They're clearly very different people, happiest in their own small world, find the life you lead to be absolutely overwhelming. Your mother clearly has very high anxiety and can't cope with travelling to you. Yet you blame her for you not cultivating friendships.

Surely the easiest thing is just to visit for a long weekend a couple of times a year, see your sister and niece (not sure why you feel you can only develop a relationship with your niece by bringing her to yours?) and mum. Have superficial conversations and realise that people who find anything outside their small world overwhelming are not going to 'just get a train' because it'll destroy their MH.

Surely the easiest thing is just to visit for a long weekend a couple of times a year, see your sister and niece (not sure why you feel you can only develop a relationship with your niece by bringing her to yours?) and mum. Have superficial conversations and realise that people who find anything outside their small world overwhelming are not going to 'just get a train' because it'll destroy their MH.

This is so astute @titchy

@hairbearbunches I think the change that might have to happen is within you understanding that they are not capable of these kinds of relationships and it is not about you. We have huge needs to be part of our “group” and it is extremely hard to accept when we cannot be for whatever reason. I have the feeling that this was easier done in the past where communication could easily be dropped and people didn’t do huge travel but these days it seems like all of this should be possible when it often isn’t.

@titchy
@ExpressionSession

Thanks for the replies. There's a ton more to it than the stuff I posted and, gawd knows, that was way too long as it is. I'm not invited home, ever. I have never been invited for a weekend, a lunch, a birthday, Christmas, nothing. If I didn't invite myself, I would never see them. They would be quite happy with a telephone relationship but how unbearably sad is that for me on the receiving end of it? They are passive bystanders even in their own lives, let alone mine.

I am not treated like a member of the family. I'm not included or considered. Despite being on the phone daily, I wasn't told my Dad was days from death and I didn't get to say goodbye. They exclude me whenever and wherever they can, only wanting my input when they have exhausted every other avenue and not come up with their desired solution. It's like I'm been punished in a very passive aggressive way for having left and they have said, on occasion, "well, you were the one that left."

An almost non existent relationship with a mother, a sister, and now a niece is too painful to continue with. I don't get anything positive out of it and my DH began pointing out a long time ago that he knew when I'd been on the phone with one of them because my own mood changed significantly for a few days afterwards. He dreads us going to see them because it takes me a couple of weeks to get over being there, but when I do make the journey, my sister and niece stay away until I've gone again. There is no coming together of any kind.

As I said originally, they're not bad people, but they're highly dysfunctional and I now believe I have been the scapegoat for a very long time so they don't have to address that dysfunctionality. I think some counselling is required to unpick it and move forward.

Ah OP, that is so sad - not telling you about your Dad’s imminent death despite being in regularly contact is really quite shocking. To me this indicates a deep level of resentment, despite how things may seem on the surface. I would really urge you to seek counselling to help you unpick the family dynamic and how it has/is affecting you.

And I would break contact with them. In the kindest way possible, please understand: they will never be the family you want them to be, or fulfil the role in your life you need them to fulfil. Let go and give yourself the peace of acceptance. It’s very sad, of course, and not at all what you deserve, but you can give yourself peace. Allow yourself to have some peace from this 💐

not telling you about your Dad’s imminent death despite being in regularly contact is really quite shocking.

An alternative view is that her mother wasn't emotionally equipped to understand her father was in his final few days - verbalising it to others makes it real, and clearly her mother is someone very very frightened of change.

Perhaps she didn’t know - though it would be interesting to find out if other family members were aware and also chose to withhold this information.

Most people are frightened of losing loved ones; in fact for many of us that’s the scariest thing we can imagine. Fear can make people behave in strange ways, for sure. The fact that OP has been pretty consistently excluded by her family suggests there might be more to this than someone freezing in fear and not doing the right thing in the moment. It definitely fits with the overall pattern.

Sister and niece were visiting daily. I saw him 5 weeks previously and although I offered to go up again to help with cooking food, and fetching and carrying etc, the offer was turned down. Apparently his breathing changed over a 48 hour period and my mother knew what was happening having witnessed it in her own mother. It just didn't occur to them that I ought to have been kept in the loop and given the chance to get there if I could.

(As an aside, but as further illustration, I used to own a cottage they were offered the use of for holidays when my niece was little. They - parents, sister, sometimes with partner, and niece - would come down and stay and not invite me to do anything with them, despite the fact I lived just 25 minutes up the road at the time, when the regular distance between us is 4 hours.)

@MarryingMrDarcy thanks for your very kind words. I really appreciate them.

I'm another one with a dysfunctional family OP. Parents are dead now and yes, it is a big relief not to have them dominating my thoughts sometimes.

In our case I also left home before my siblings, moved away to a big city and honestly, if I hadn't made an effort to keep in touch then I think they would all have happily forgotten about me.

What changed my mindset on this was when I got talking to a cousin and it turned out that she'd had a very similar upbringing to mine, even though they lived far away from us. In comparing notes I discovered that my mother's parents had also had a dysfunctional household. So behaviours were obviously passing down through the generations.

Once I knew that, I could re-visit what I saw as my mother's coldness and uncaring, unloving attitude to me.

So I decided to, in my mind, forgive my mother's behaviour as I understood that she was a product of her upbringing in very different, difficult times.

We never had a close relationship but we at least had a relationship. Once I let go of my resentment I could be more patient with my mother.

I always say that I'm grateful to my mum, as she showed me how not to be a mother and consequently I have a close and loving relationship with my own kids.

Don't know if you will relate to my experience OP, but I wish you peace.

OP I've witnessed a similar (possibly not so extreme) situation where no invitation is ever extended and phone calls always have to be initiated by one side and not the other.

I think it's clearly exhausting to always feel like you are the one to maintain the relationship, and thinking that if you didn't, it would just fizzle out to nothing.

The energy spent thinking about it and wondering why/trying to think of reasons/rationalise it is also exhausting.

I can see why you just want to cut this source of pain out of your life but do you think you'd just switch to wondering if/when they were going to notice you've not been in contact, and get in touch with you? Do you think in reality you'd always be waiting for the phone to ring?

I don't know what the answer is, bar doing what PP have suggested and trying to accept it for what it is?

Could you set aside an evening a month to call your mother? Have a chat for half and hour about surface things and then agree to speak in another month? And maybe knock the in-person visits on the head for now.

I suppose what I am saying is totally compartmentalise that relationship. She gets at most an hour a month of your headspace, and the rest of the month you just don't think about her.

That way you aren't taking the most extreme option but you are emotionally disconnecting a bit to protect yourself. You could do the same with your sister if you wanted to.

@Holymolyfandoly Sorry to hear of your own dysfunctionality. Glad you found a way through it.

The situation with my lot is plain weird. It's not a cold, uncaring relationship. My mother doesn't behave in a cold way, it's more of a completely immature way. She's like a little girl, she doesn't know how to parent properly. They keep me at arms length because my presence in their lives, even without me saying anything, draws attention to their dysfunctionality. On some level, I think they are aware of it. I think they know it's not normal to have no friends, to not engage with family members, to be so insular that the only people they see are each other where they take turns to go to each other's houses but not really anywhere else, but when I turn up, because I don't live like that, I make them uncomfortable about it and they project their insecurities on to me. I have tried to speak to them about it, saying how hurt I've felt in the past when I am not invited to celebrate a birthday, for example, and their response was 'well, what do you want to come all this way for just to sit here and eat cake?' It wouldn't occur to them to go out and have food, or celebrate in some other way that is a bit more outward facing.

I was responsible for putting a lot of of my Dad's funeral together and the photos at the wake were, for me, really quite sad. I tried my best to show a cohesive family, because no-one wants to show dysfunctionality to a wider audience, but all the photos from the last few years were just my parents and sister and niece, eating various different pieces of cake at home. Lockdown didn't start for them, and it didn't finish. It was already their life.

@Holly60

The idea of one phone call a month and compartmentalising her is useful.

I think one of the problems I have is that I can't shake the idea that their dysfunction rubs off on me. When I have to engage with it, it makes me feel bad about myself because these are my people. They're who I am, they're where I'm from. It destroys my own confidence on occasion, which is awful. Not having to engage with it at all would be better for my own sense of self, but it's not something that sits easy. Your suggestion might be a way round it.

All you have to do is stop contacting them. You don’t have to say anything to them about it. DH just wasn’t bothered about his family, so that’s what he did. Don’t do anything extreme, that way you still have a route back if you or they want it later on.

@Rocknrollstar, I tried that, thought it would take the pressure off all of us. I was already the scapegoat, but pulling back made it a lot, lot worse and the route back for me and my DC was closed off, with life changing results. I am two years into therapy now and we are still only scratching the surface.

You sound as though you are a fixer and I'm a bit worried that as your mum becomes more needy but you will step in and try to fix the problem. I really don't think that would be a good idea.

I was horrified that they would go to your holiday cottage and not invite you there. They were obviously able to make that trip weren't they?

I think I would just stick with a monthly phone call now. They both sound so insular and odd that you're never going to have a normal relationship with them at this point.

Are you close to your husband's family?

You can choose to say "these are NOT my people". They do not define you. You do not need the warm glow of their approval to validate you (although obviously you wish you had it).
That helped me at a crucial point in my own separation from a toxic family. Because I was made to feel any problems that existed were my fault. Then a family member mistreated an animal in front of me and I made the conscious choice. No. My DH & DC are my family. These people are not what I am like.

I think that estrangement is very common for any number of versions of the reasons you are experiencing. A not insignificant minority of families are extremely dysfunctional and certain members are singled out for the worst of the behaviour and end up protecting themselves by putting in emotional and often full physical distance. I see it in my own family, I see it with my DHs family.

Very emotionally underdeveloped parents and they cannot cope with the reality of their situation whatever that may be, so they scapegoat. As you are finding it continues with siblings and on and on it goes until someone addresses it for the sake of their own family.

You have your own family now with your DH. It does sound like you are ready to drop the rope. Get support from someone while you make the adjustment.

You have a fantasy of what a real mother is like. Unfortunately the reality is your mom is not like that. The distance between fantasy and reality causes depression. By fully accepting your mom as she is, never going to change, you may find it easier to be in occasional touch expecting nothing. I would say its not a good time after a death to make a decision about cutting them off as grief can cause a lot of anger and it might be wiser to wait a while.
Saying that l was never invited to my parents house l just turned up. Popped in when l lived near and called saying l was coming when far away. My own kids are the same. They just come. If l was going away or had anything on l would tell them but otherwise they pop in and out.
Look at your mom's own childhood. This is perhaps the best she can do. So make a decision not to change her and see it as a kindly visit once every few months. Also some therapy to come to terms with the disappointment and hurt would be useful.

Thanks all for the replies. All of them have given me food for thought. Much appreciated.

Sounds very similar to my set up. I live about that distance away too and my Dh thinks my family is weird. Very enmeshed, live in a bubble of their own lives. They’ve never been to visit, bar one cousin when he was working locally and needed somewhere to stay. They definitely think I’m the weird one. They’ve never moved from our home town whereas I left at 18. I do, however, get invited to events, but there’s no way I’m travelling 5 hours both ways to attend a christening on a Sunday morning, for example. My mum recently told me she’d no longer visit since my neighbour (similar age to her but never had much to do with her) died. All very odd.

OP I do feel for you and I've a similar situation but with added warring parents. They live thousands of miles away having emigrated in their retirement. Most people find them difficult and keep their distance. Anyway they aren't talking to me so the relationship has collapsed. I'd just go low contact and I wouldn't have it out with them. It really isn't your fault but I know it's heartbreaking.