To think that Sunday trading hours need to be abolished?

[HFJ]

I remember the hullabaloo about Sunday trading back in the late 80s

Whenever I talk to people about this, many usually give the following reasons why Sunday trading restrictions are a good thing:

1. Everyone can have Sunday lunch/family time together
2. Retail workers can have some weekend time off

However, I can’t be the only person who thinks the above is BALONEY

On the family time thing, I object for feminist reasons because it usually means a hard-working woman somewhere has to peel potatoes and rustle up a Sunday lunch for everyone else. Then, when she has done all that, can she treat herself to an emergency handbag, pair of shoes, just get away and meet a friend for coffee, or perhaps get the family shopping in on before the working week starts? Can she heck. Why? Because of some Bishops in the house of lords decree that the world should shut and therefore her indoors should remain indoors.

On the weekend time off thing, I really don’t see what the issue is. There are plenty of students who would like to and need to work. Also, there’s nothing to stop religious workers asking their employer to prioritise time off on Sunday for them (just as Muslims, Jews, people with caring responsibilites can make requests).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I'm just giving my opinion, that's what this thread is for. I was working full time with a long commute so I doubt I had more free time than average.

Sounds like Germany to me. My family over there hate the Sunday restrictions!

This is why intersectional approaches are important. You say you object from a feminist perspective. But what about the women who work in reatail. Most often the poorest and from other marginalised groups. It's giving white middle class feminist 🙄

@fluffyguineapig when I worked retail a lot of the Monday - Friday staff was indeed "mum's with school age children" . The weekend staff was 6th Formers and university students. The students usually did the school holidays too as we could still have term time contracts if needed/wanted.
I was full time. My contract was I worked 5 days out of 7. Mine was set up that I didn't work Sunday and did alternative Saturdays/Thursdays.
That's actually what retail needs - a return to clear and regular shift patterns for staff. Get rid of the "you must be available anytime" nonsense.
Have dedicated Monday - Friday staff. Have dedicated Weekend staff. Have dedicated Evening staff.
(and have some staff who can be flexible if they want)

YABU. Shop online like anyone sensible

You're so right @Needmorelego! It doesn't seem beyond the realms of fantasy for most retail workers to have fixed hours, and to drop the awful zero hours, no set schedule thing that goes on now. I get that shops need more workers at busier times, but surely they could at least say well on Tuesday afternoons we will always need at least 3 workers, so let's make those regular shifts! I think it's awful that people have to be ready to go in at a moment's notice because if they turn a shift down they might not be offered another!

@Needmorelego You've clearly never worked in a discount supermarket. 10 hour days are a normal shift length. 5 days a week usually too

@CheekyLittleElf so you were on a 50 hour a week contract? That's unusual surely?

Most of the shops here are shut all day Sunday. I’d prefer everything to be closed
like in Germany.
We don’t need shops to be always open.

Theoretically, I agree. The problem of course, is that if the hours were increased, all that would happen is a bunch of employees would be treated even more badly.

I never really understand this. Increase your hours and perhaps employ more staff, specifically identifying people who want to work on Sundays. And yet, instead, it will just be the same old staff, at the same old pay, with no options.

@AlltheFs yes we don't need shops to "always be open" but it makes much more sense to be open when the trade levels will be higher - like on a Sunday.

47.5 hour contracts, breaks are unpaid. and no, not unusual. Though most aren't contracted to that many hours, usually part time, but hours still need covering so people work more than their contract all the time

So shops should open all Sunday so the women can... Get a Sunday job or just cook for her and the kids cos he's at work? And this will liberate women from the shackles of a paternalistic state? Ok then...

Plenty of places poor subjugated women can go on a Sunday. Lots of shops open. Pubs. Cinemas. Restaurants.

I don't think this is the pinnacle of female oppression

@CheekyLittleElf gosh. I actually didn't know that. 37.5 hours was the standard in my retail days (90s/00s).
That's what is wrong though. It shouldn't be like that. More staff, more sensible shift patterns.

It’s been ten years since I lived in France, but then the culture was to shut on Sundays… and heaven forbid you wanted a supermarket on a Wednesday morning.

But you adjust quite quickly and it’s nice that everything is just a bit quieter and less frantic and less capitalist.

I’d vote for closing entirely on Sundays. And as a woman and a feminist I’ve never spent my Sunday cooking a roast! I’d be voting for staying at home, going for walks, trips to the park - but I wouldn’t mind other service venues being open though so maybe I’m a hypocrite (but I have no personal skin in the retail game!)

I agree with you OP. Those who want to stay at home and choose Sunday as a family day can still do so, those who want to get out and about/shop or whatever should also be able to do so.

I do agree that those who would prefer to keep Sunday sacred for religious or other reasons should be able to ask for work concessions; although having worked in hospitality and residential education, we always worked Sundays anyway and it never did my family any harm. It's annoying that I couldn't go home via the shops when I came off duty on Sunday.

I've lived in Scandinavia where everything was closed on Sunday....literally everything. It wasn't family time, it was just dead and bloody awful!!

hell no, I'm in Scotland and find English Sunday opening hours restrictive when I'm down there. When you work fulltime Mon-Fri it's very limited if your only day for shopping is Saturday! No one is forcing anyone to go shopping on a Sunday and those who work it will get days off at other times in the week, which is often more useful than a weekend off because lots of other things are only Mon-Fri!

Having been brought up in Scotland I do find it quite backward here in London that it is so restrictive re Sunday shopping hours.

So you don't want to do anything that involves other people working on a Sunday then? No public transport, no cafes/restaurants, no museums, no attractions, no parks, etc?

"Everyone suiting themselves" is basically just having a walk or cycle ride on public footpaths or staying in playing board games if no one else is working!

Nothing stopping YOU from staying in or going for a walk. How does everyone else going shopping, to the pub/restaurant, to a theme park, etc affect you if you don't want to??

Well the shops local to us disagree, our High Street is largely shut on Sundays. It’s lovely.

I think the world would be better if there was less time spent buying crap and more time spent together. 24/7 consumerism is not desirable.

Yes I do. I think it would bring more life to towns on Sundays. There is nothing more depressing than a "closed" English town on a Sunday afternoon at 4.15pm.

The making people work on Sundays isn't an argument. First of all, people work shifts and don't work every day anyway, and secondly, some people would be very happy to work Sundays. And others wouldn't, and so wouldn't open.

We do need workforce reform though - retailers need to be required to stop this nonsense of not giving people set shift patterns. They always managed in the past, so they can do so now. You get set shifts and then potentially extra if people are away/sick etc.

If your High Street is largely shut, presumably no one actually goes there, as why would they if everything is shut?? Why is it "lovely" if everything's shut and there's nothing to do??

I think the world would be better if there was less time spent buying crap and more time spent together. 24/7 consumerism is not desirable

People can buy tat online.

And not everyone has people to spend time together with, so they would prefer to work.

It was the SNP that actually stopped the rules being changed in England (as in, if they hadn't voted it would have gone through). They usually say they won't vote on England-only matters but I think they were trying to annoy David Cameron at the time ;)

Exactly, people would shop online even more than they do now if shops are shut longer, meaning even fewer shops would survive.