To be filled with panic about WFH culture becoming a thing of the past?

[themusingsofaninsomniac]

prefacing with please read the context before blanket responses 😊

I am stressing away as I tend to do lately on the same topic. I have WFH since the pandemic, with the odd day or so in the office I am lucky to have full flexibility with.

I have Autism. I also have ADHD. The combo together is quite the clusterfuck to navigate as a newly diagnosed female. Essentially the pandemic shone a light on so much and I'm so grateful that it enabled me to seek diagnosis, as much as it's an ongoing struggle.

From working remotely since the beginning I've never felt more stable and successful in my career. I was able to secure a promotion into a field I'd never have had the confidence to try in a non-remote setting in the first place, and I've been fortunate to earn a fair bit more as a result.

I feel completely at ease in my own environment and with the ability to tailor things to what works well for me. Having that commute time back has helped my wellbeing, as has having my lunch breaks in my own home. I am in a routine that I feel helps my mental health and the challenges neurodiversity brings me massively.

My current employer is great but they are the type of company that won't be around forever unfortunately. And from a lot of media and on here etc, it's becoming obvious that things are shifting to either back in the office or a hybrid with a good half your days expected in the office.

This absolutely fills me with dread. I feel like it would turn my world upside down. I'm sure people who don't relate to this will think I'm being dramatic but change and environments outside of your own control are so so hard especially once you've had several years of the opposite.

I guess I'm just wondering where this leaves me. I still have a few friends who WFH but not in my industry. I'm not sure if there would be more flexibility for me, but I also worry about how that will reflect towards my colleagues and I don't want to get anyone's back up. I guess I'm catastrophising that if I need to find another job I'll never be able to maintain what is working so well for me.

Not sure what I'm seeking here to be honest - reassurance maybe or just help to navigate this and whether it's best to be upfront with new employers from the start, or whether that might reduce my chances of being hired. I've been told I don't present as autistic, or typical ADHD but I guess the mix of both means it's a lot more blended. Either way I have generally got good feedback from interviews so it would likely not be known unless I was transparent.

I'd especially like to hear from someone in a similar boat too, if there is anyone? Probably not at twenty to one on a weekday though I imagine 😅

Thanks to anyone who has read this to the end as I know that got wordy!

Ooof I'm so sorry to hear this that sounds rough. I assume you've already tried speaking to your HR department?

I don't know legally what rights we have in this situation. I'm similar in that my written contract states 2 days a week in the office and my commute is around 1h 45 each way. So I guess any employer can employ you in good faith telling you otherwise but unless they amend the contract they can revert back at any point.

I hope you're able to find something better soon. I don't understand what difference it makes if you're performing at the same level. It baffles me.

Thank you. I recently found out about access to work which can support with coaching calls. I can't review it just yet because it's a mighty slow process from application to any kind of resolution.

I'm hoping this may help. There just aren't enough resources - this service in itself has a 3-4 month turnaround, NHS diagnosis take at least two years and if you have more than one condition they have to be done separately, going private is expensive if you aren't with BUPA or similar already. I am.. but they don't cover neurodiversity so will only cover diagnosis if it's linked to an evident mental health condition. And even so, they'll cover diagnosis but after that they offer standard CBT which isn't in anyway tailored. You're on your own with the costs of medication.. and if you get that far you're now faced with a 4-6 month shortage of it.

It's really tough going all round!

This is why one standard approach isn't the answer. I know a few people, mostly NT who are the same and mentally struggled without coming into the office, especially with very young kids at home all day for example.

Some people need that face to face interaction but for others it really hinders them and makes them uncomfortable. The socialising after work aspect is great if you are comfortable with it too - in the past I've tried my best at it but often found myself drinking quite a bit in order to feel relaxed as otherwise I just feel so so awkward. It's really hard to explain it to someone who doesn't experience the same level of not fitting in and being an outsider.

That's a really good analogy! I've been struggling to find a way to describe it to people who say 'well you coped fine before' for example. Because, I didn't, I just didn't know what was causing me to struggle and find life more difficult than everyone else.

I had friends who had a baby and a toddler that had their shit together better than me and a lovely home and I did nothing but berate myself why I was such a failure with no children struggling to keep on top of my full time job and commute. And the house was a tip!

I was coping in unhealthy ways back then too like drinking at work socials to feel more comfortable, impulsive spending, disordered eating.. it's really hard to relay that to people who can't relate.

I'm glad you have a supportive line manager, I think mine would do the same but in my current role it seems settled for now. One thing I've seen recommended is to request you're told of change in advance, so I'm not sure if you could raise that too - rather than being told anything on the spot for example. I think I would benefit from this too.

Thanks I didn't know what it was actually called only that you could request reasonable adjustments.

I'm glad to hear they made adjustments for you as well. And it's also good to hear from the perspective of others who benefit from home - I think there are probably a plethora of medical conditions etc where WFH makes a significant difference

There is a big difference between being an introvert and being autistic, though.

Great that it works for him but again it's not a one size fits all answer. It needs to be tailored to the individual.

Well I have both, and from what I have understood so far is medication will help ADHD (though isn't plain sailing either) but won't help the ASD and may cause it to flair up.

Either way, ADHD meds aren't attainable for me until April as there is a shortage. It's also extremely expensive as I have to get back into the NHS queue for shared care after a private diagnosis. I personally don't think it's the right route for me having both disorders. And yes I know there is a link, due to having both of them.

I agree with this. I have a network of friends im comfortable with, I go to the gym, I chat with colleagues on teams.. I have more time for people because of the flexibility of WFH so I don't fully agree with this either.

When I was younger I'd have also loved the opportunity to work from home so it's not an age thing it's an individual thing. We aren't all "social creatures" in the same way. I'm a lot more relaxed and carefree around people I know and trust vs random people I don't know or worse still people are work who are going to try and throw you under the bus or start drama and gossip. I used to work in that environment often and it's beyond toxic and I'd rather have no social interaction at all than that all say every day.

I appreciate the company names - I really think companies should just be transparent to be honest. This is refreshing to see after some of the most recent posts that just don't get it.

If you don't want neurodiverse employees just own it and accept how judgemental you are. Like the previous commenter said 'they don't want someone who doesn't fit their environment and business ethos' - I think this is awful. I don't necessarily want to be autistic and have adhd either, but I have both of them so why should my opportunities be limited when I'm generally excelling in my job and getting positive feedback? If I wasn't, then fair enough.

But, ‘‘twas ever thus and I don’t see it changing

My sector (charity) still has lots of wfh and hybrid employment opportunities.

My own workplace is nearly fully remote but will pay for desk space for those who want/or need it. All roles are fully flexible and I have quite a few NT colleagues.

Personally I will never return to working in an office. I enjoy getting together in person for team meetings and attending conferences and events but presenteeism - sitting at a desk in a physical location is utterly pointless and I wont do it.

Realistically, those same challenges arise in the office. If you are managing a large call centre team, you can't be on your feet looking over people's shoulders the whole time because, as you say, you have other work to do, so you are still relying on remote monitoring.

I agree no one is going to be popping out to Tesco in the middle of an office shift, but (without going down the rabbit hole of what is and isn't reasonable in terms of breaks) there are usually other places they can go - the activities that fall under the umbrella of 'going to get a coffee' - and if a person wants to take a break of unreasonable length or breaks at unreasonable frequency, generally they will find a way to do it whether at home or in the office.

Like the people who have copious amounts of smoking breaks.. I don't smoke but assume this happens more at the office that home as usually it's the gossip spot from what I hear 😅

Thinking about it, I smoke slightly more when working from home just because it's quicker - stepping out the back door instead of walking through the office maze, waiting for lifts and so on. I prefer not to be bothered if I am having a cigarette because it's a bit of thinking time - if someone in the smoking shelter talks to me, of course I will respond to be friendly, but I don't seek out conversation.

@NigelHarmansNewWife that isn’t the case in my experience. You can manage the underperformance but it is painful and time consuming: if you’re in the office then you don’t have the same problem as it’s more visible. Companies know this And can’t find the additional management overhead (it’s significant . feel it every day and it’s materially different to pre lockdown when everyone was in the office. If these individuals didn’t do this the hybrid model would be more secure. . I’m a huge supporter of hybrid and want it to work for my personal reasons too but it’s becoming unmanageable:

Sorry I didn't mean that to sound like a generalisation of all smokers. I meant that there are a small proportion who do this and become kind of infamous for it!

I'm one of those people who hates WFH and I'm concerned I'd never find a traditional office environment again!!
I work somewhere at the moment where there are a decent chunk of people in every day, I have my own desk, sit near my team mates etc....
I'm about to move to a new job, hotdesking where people are hybrid wfh. I'm worried I'll be on my own, or won't be able to really gel with the team....

In reality neither of our worst fears will probably come true, try not to worry.

That's a good tip about being notified of change in advance, I'll talk to my line manager about it - thank you! You might want to look into Access to Work, as well. They offer coaching sessions which I'm using to create strategies for specific situations.

Yeah, the not coping thing is very relatable. People just don't see it. I had eight line managers in five years because I couldn't settle in a team. I thought the problem was me rather than the unnecessary inflexibility of the system. Since the shift to WFH I've remained in the same team and thrived (in comparison to the wreck I was before). People see your job title and your relationship status and mistake those things for coping. My reality is that I had very disordered eating and sleeping. My relationship was in a very difficult place and I lurched from one crisis to another.

The frog analogy helps - my line manager head a light bulb moment once I explained things like that and now uses it to explain to others. Hopefully it'll be helpful for you, too.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/30/return-to-office-is-dead-stanford-economist-says-heres-why.html

looks like back to the office trend has stalled in the USA and economist thinks it will stay that way unless there is a massive recession. Also says once older bosses retire the in office culture will retire with rhem

Does this apply to non work from home jobs? I work in dentistry and my pay has not increased in 10 years. So with all other costs going up in now much more worse off than I was. Am I OK to start answering my phone half way through appointments or tell people in the waiting room I'm just popping out and they'll have to wait another hour to be seen? And if people don't like it I'll just tell them they'll have to pay more to get my full attention and better service.
Maybe even the receptionist can start wandering off and not answering the phone. Not bothering to check people in as she's off on the school run. I mean surely if people to expect her to do her job and give patients her attention she'll be to be paid more.
Or maybe if you're doing a job that involves service to other people in some way you have to do the job your paid to do. If you don't like the conditions or pay you can leave. You can't give terrible service to customers just because you apparently don't get paid enough or you feel you should have more choices.

There's a big difference between jobs where you have to be available to customers (whether that's a receptionist, working at the passport office answering queries or working for a banking call centre) when you have to be in the office, or it's better to be because of computer systems and having people on hand to answer queries.

But many jobs are genuinely location-agnostic. It's no good moaning that yours isn't, eg teaching, dentistry, nursing, whatever. That's what you chose to do.

But something like being a lawyer can be done from everywhere. Many lawyer rarely meet their clients in person and if they do, it's more of a networking chat so isn't in an office environment anyway.

And the main reasons people are getting terrible service from call centres is because the companies are hiding behind chatbots and not employing enough staff. WFH may play a role in some cases but during covid I had plenty of good service from call centres where people are working from home, so it's to do with the company, not WFH.

Lots of people absolutely can do that, though. Not because they feel they should have more choices, but because they already do. Some of them work remotely, some of them in person. This is just you saying you don't think they should and wish they didn't. But the labour market conditions for people in low wage customer service jobs aren't actually affected by your expectations.

For you as a person in a regulated profession, that means there are additional obligations on you in a way that there aren't on, say, people who work in call centres. You have more rules to follow and more potential consequences if you don't. But those of you working privately are certainly able to charge more for your services, yes, because that's how supply and demand works. It isn't something any of us get to opt out of because we have strong feelings about it.

Completely agree actually getting through to a real call centre these days is quite exciting usually only after working out the formula to get there after a few attempts

But someone on here said about ringing for a service and half way through the call the person says oh sorry there's a package at the door or my dog is barking I can't hear you etc.
I don't complain about not being able to work from home. I absolutely love going into my practice and we have a great team and have such a good laugh every day. I have no interest in retraining and getting a work from home job.
What I would complain about is ringing say a lawyer and paying them a lot of money for them to half way through the call say oh sorry hang on my kids just need me to get them a snack or one second there's someone at my front door.
Just because a lawyer can technically work from home and I can't, this does not mean one of our professions should be allowed to not give our clients 100% at all times. Or apparently I should pay the lawyer more in order for them to go to the office and actually focus on me.
If I am using a service and the person is at home, if nothing draws attention that they are at home then I would never know and also couldn't care less where they are. The issue is when there's distractions and interruptions purely because they are at home. I am then made aware they are at home as a reason for the distraction then yes I'll get annoyed.