To ask how to get out of this situation

[noragrats]

I generally put everyone else first before me and so I’m struggling with this one because I think the only way to be happy is to sacrifice someone else’s happiness. I would appreciate some completely and utter honesty and constructive advice on how to move forward.

My mum wanted to retire early, me and my husband want to buy a house but the rent where we live “down south” is high so was looking to be unfeasible.

As I had just had a new baby, mum suggested we give it notice in at our rental and move in with her. She lives in a 3 bed alone so there was room for me, our son and our newborn. We could live there for 2 years and hopefully on my 60k salary be able to save up and buy a house up north near one of my company’s other offices.

We reckoned we could put away maybe £1500 a month, so 2 to 3 years. I haven’t lived with mum for 20 years and don’t see her an awful lot - which meant I was naive.

So, a year ago we moved in. She quit her job and she spends her days providing childcare as “grandchildren should be at home”. I tried to sign up our now 1 year old to nursery and she was having none of it.

I am at the end of my tether. I am late 30s and I cannot handle being spoken to like I am a teenager, I gently tapped our sons hand when he grabbed the dogs fur and she said “don’t do that, you mustn’t hit him”. I have turned into this horrific horrible person who snaps the second she breathes, who can’t even be in the same room. I was working from home, I’m now back in the office as I just cannot handle it. My husband only works part time for health reasons, he’s taken to sitting in the caravan just to get away from her. If he tries to take our son out for a walk with the dog - she even tells him how to use the pram. Every time! Every evening I am upstairs. My son doesn’t leave his bedroom, I eat my tea in bed…at 38!!!

In return for us living there rent free, I pay for all of her/our bills. She hasn’t taken a pension yet so her only income is me. She isn’t wealthy at all, she inherited a house which needs so much working doing.

I thought this would be fine, I thought she’d had a hard life when she was married to dad and she’s been very lonely so she’d love to have the kids around (she does) but she wouldn’t be so controlling. Not only that but she is filthy and doesn’t clean. Now I would imagine there are gasps at the audacity, but let me tell you, every surface is cluttered and there is a singular square of surface usable in the kitchen. Every single time I go to the washing up bowl - she appears and says “I’m about to do that”. Every time I start to clean surfaces, move the toasted to clean underneath she tells me I need to use Ecover not whatever I’ve picked up. If I start to clean the oven, she appears to tell me it’s self cleaning…if I start to clean the bathroom - she pops her head out of the toilet and garbles “not the bleach not the bleach”. She doesn’t let me do the laundry, she has PHYSICALLY wrestled the Lenor Unstoppables from me. I bought a new bedding set “ooh it’s got polyester in it” to which I turned into a raging beast and threatened to lob it at her. I am 38…not 18. I bought washing up liquid and was criticised for not price checking it and for not driving another ten minutes to ASDA where it’s on offer. “Have you tested DS2s milk temperature, have you walked the dog, have you checked if DS1 has PE tomorrow, have you checked your tyre pressure”.

I’ve turned into a horrible beast of a human and I’m going to ruin our relationship.

If I move out, she doesn’t have a job, She gave everything up for us. She’ll feel abandoned. I love her but dear lord I do not like her and it breaks my heart.

How do I fix this? She raised me, she’s given up so much for me and the siblings. I thought this would be good and we’d be fine and then she’d only have a couple of years before pension. I have royally fucked up.

What's her long term plan anyway, given yours was always to move? She can't stay for the rest of her life in a house she can't afford to maintain. She would be best anyway to sell up and downsize to something she can maintain and afford.

I understand why you pay the bills. They won't be much more for five than four people. But I feel for you.

Your mum has to have a long term strategy whether that is taking in a lodger or downsizing.

Can you relocate and rent in the North?

Make a plan to move out soon. You should settle down soon anyway as your children will be entering the education system. Put a sum aside to cover DM basic costs for a few weeks. It is up to her to sort things out but perhaps ask DH to research benefits and costs of alternative accommodation for her to give her alternatives. Write up the plan and give her a copy once all is in place. I couldn't stand my DM for 2 days so actually you have coped well. You must prioritise your own family at all times.

Your mum is a grown-ass adult and needs to take care of herself. She may want to retire, but she cant afford it.

Make plans to leave, soon. Let your mother figure out what to do to support herself. She knows how to adult; she just doesn't want to.

Some of what she's said is good advice - eg ecover, not bleach are two critical things she said that are actually spot on esp with young children.
Instead of arguing, talk to her. Ask her what she'd buy and why. Get on the same page.
Ref checking a,b,c, and d create a list of what needs checking with her. Find somewhere to put it and instead of her asking tell her what you've done.

Ref the state of the house, can you get someone in to help rationalise/clear it? The local authority may be able to help with contacts. In my area there are squads that help with hoarding issues if that's what she has.

She sounds like she has a mental health issue, though. Can she get this checked out?

If nothing works, you'll have no choice but to move out. Many organisations, like Eden, offer help with deposits - there is no charge, they just own x% of your home until you sell or buy them out. Or look for a house near your northern office that has ftb incentives. As the property market continues to weaken, you'll see more of these offers appearing. Buy a house and relocate.

Mum's never stop being mums....

Sounds like moving out is necessary but you could have a frank and open conversation.

Tell her that you need to be able to clean / make decisions in your own home (even though it's her house it's still your home while you live there).

Tell her you like things to be cleaner than they are and you want to contribute to making it that way.

At least then when you drop the news about moving out it might be less of a surprise?

Just clean as you go, how is she going to stop you?
Start taking back some control, you have the power here and unless she is an idiot she must know that.
I would pay for a one off professional deep clean and then explain that you will be keeping on top of it, any upset or fussing about it and you will be moving up north sooner than planned.
The comments about how you deal with the baby are just comments, annoying yes, but ultimately just words. Next time she mentions something like the pram just laugh and say 'yes mother, we can manage'.
Obviously move out ASAP!

Move out ASAP, it's not worth it

There’s lots of new build developments here ‘up north’ depending on where you mean, many of which only need a 5% deposit.

On your salary a mortgage for the rest be more than achievable.

No way would I stay a second longer than required. I lived with MIL for a year to save a deposit and it was horrendous. I ended up buying a tiny 2 bed sooner than planned just to get out!

First of all, does she get any benefits?

It doesn't matter what the rest of the houses on the street get, what would she get if she sold her house now as it is? Would it be enough to buy a flat outright?

Unfortunately, she has made the decision to retire early. How old is she now? It sounds as though she can't afford to do that, same as most people in the country. Can you look at her working part-time maybe and claiming some sort of benefits, but living in a place on her own ?

Christ OP don't support her financially, that will only prolong her reliance on you!

She needs to get her act together, sort out her house and get a job.

Give her 2 or 3 months notice that you are leaving. This was only a temporary measure in the 1st place so she was always going to have to work again.

The house is unsafe for your child apart from anything else, so you cannot stay there as long as you intended.

I’m going to do a budget tomorrow to see if I can financially support her for a period of time AND move out

This is madness. You're not responsible for her financials. She can go back to work. She's presumably managed her whole life until this point and the decision to retire is not everlasting. You can - and must - accept that this has not worked out and you need to change the plan and move out asap. Let her know and let her work out what is best for her to do going forward. As you say, she treats you like a teenager so it's madness for you to flip that into feeling like you have to financially support her. Of course you can give her lots of notice and advice and whatever else is helpful, but don't enmesh yourself even more and make this a bigger mistake that makes it even harder for your family.

You need to stop casting yourself as this weedy people pleaser when in fact you want to snap at her and take charge of your household and childcare and life decisions. Move out into your own place, wherever that may be within your budget, pay for nursery and stick to your guns. My mum could not stop me putting my DC in nursery and nor could she wrestle the Lenor off me. Take a breath and then get practical, pragmatic and don't get sucked into a vortex of emotional blackmail and feeling bad. You tried this, it didn't work out, the only thing to regret is sticking with it and making things worse. Sort it out for 2024 and ultimately everyone will be better off.

I agree you should move out and I don’t think you are letting your mum down.

Older people who have lived on their own a while can get very set in their ways.

If you feel bound to help your mum, you could look and see what benefits she would be eligible for. That might help you feel less bad if you know she can manage.

Would it be likely that you would remain close and she could continue to look after your child short term (with safety issues addressed) if in her home, or ground rules in yours. The money you pay her for child care plus benefits might be enough.

I would prioritise looking at properties locally & near your Up North office

Investigate jobs in the North office

You may need to pay your DMs bills for one to 3 months after you leave if she has zero income. Then she will need to apply for universal credit until state retirement age if she is not working.

Does your DM not have a private pension that she can access ?

She could sell her property via auction & downsize. The seller agrees a minimum selling price, plus fees.

She can have a lodger & earn 7k without paying tax per year If she lives there

For your DM
It is not back dated, she can apply now
But would be expected to look for work
It would also pay her National Insurance "stamps" towards her state pension
https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit

Get your DM to check her state pension
When
How much
If she needs more years of National Insurance

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

You need to lay down the law. These things happen or we move out:

• We sort the clutter and filth
• Baby goes to nursery some days
• Stop telling me what to do

You absolutely need to move out. This is incredibly bad not just for you, but for your husband and your son. You are living with a one-year-old in a filthy, cluttered house and being bullied by an overbearing, irrational woman who is financially supported by you. Your husband has resorted to sitting in a caravan just to get away and you are regularly being reduced to tears. Your mother is not being kind, at all. She is using you for financial support and treating you appallingly.

Yes, she raised you. But, as she is your parent, that was the bare minimum she was obliged to do for you. The fact that she brought you up was her choice, not a favour that you have to spend your entire life repaying her for. She is an adult. If she can't afford to live without you, she will have to get a job or downsize to a smaller property instead of living in a three-bed house filled with shit.

This whole situation is insane and you need to grow a backbone before this ruins your marriage and starts affecting your son.

You shouldn't feel that you have to support her. You need to save for your own life not sacrifice yourselves.

Many/most couples with children could not bear to move back home with parents - there are lots of threads about this and how it doesn't work. It's just not easy or even feasible given the likely family power dynamics, as you've found. You have to move out, that's clear.

Is your Mum a hoarder? Or is she just disorganised and thus the clutter and mess?

I ask because if you are making monthly savings, would it be worth using one or two months of that cash and taking your Mum away for a weekend somewhere, or paying for her and a pal to go on a little weekend away, then while she is gone for the weekend, pay a cleaning and decluttering service to come in and sort stuff out as "a lovely surprise" for your Mum.

Once the place has been sorted I usually it should be much easier to keep on top of.

Could you get an inexpensive neutral carpet throughout. Ie could you spruce the place a wee bit in the hopes that then you could move out and she could get lodgers?

It's clear that you can't go on living there. You can't bear your mother's ways and she can't change how she is or who she is. It's all about control and it's ingrained. You've reached the point of crisis where every move and every moment is a torture. You can't endure the unendurable. I've seen this in my own family which ended with the young couple moving out into a caravan at the bottom of the garden until their own house was ready. Life and peace were restored. Is it possible for you and your husband and children to live in the caravan while you gather together the money and the plan for buying your own house near your work? Could you borrow, rent or buy a bigger caravan if it's not big enough?

I think you have two options (which one to go for would be very much coloured for me by whether you asked her to stop work originally, whether you have had a frank conversation about it all previously, and whether the place is hoarded or just cluttered).

One is to have a sit down heart to heart and explain things can’t go on like this, if you are to remain living with her then you must not be undermined or patronised when it comes to parenting decisions including whether to introduce some nursery time, and she needs to get the place properly decluttered (which you and your husband will help with) plus you must be allowed to clean (I think it’s reasonable that you use the cleaning products your mum prefers though). In some ways this is the best outcome for everyone if it can be achieved (and also won’t leave you with a hoarded house to deal with later on).

Or you simply say it’s not working out and give her a timescale of eg 3 months for when you’ll be moving out.

However I do personally agree with your mum about not smacking/tapping/whatever your one year old.

Was the initial 2 year period agreed with your mum? Or does she think this is an indefinite thing that will just continue?

There's no emotionally easy way out of it but you're going to have to have a conversation! Start looking for a house (and let her know) and put an offer in as soon as you can. If your mum has no savings and no pension, she will presumably be entitled to State support so it'd be worth looking at the entitledto website and see what she could receive once you move out.

It's really, really hard and obviously you don't want to leave her in the lurch but you also really can't continue to live like this. 😞