AIBU to geeky uneasy about school installing CCTV in toilets?

[Doseofreality]

High school have sent a letter home tonight saying that they will be installing CCTV in a “blind spot” of one of the toilet blocks. The reasoning is that it will cut down on antisocial behaviour and vaping.

AIBU to find CCTV in school toilets creepy? I will be contacting the school to ask if the footage will be continuously monitored and also who will have access to it.

My main concern is that young girls will forget they are being recorded and May exit cubicles still adjusting clothes (we’ve all done it) or adjusting clothing whilst looking in the mirror etc. Pupils also sometimes use the toilets to change in and out of PE kits, during exam season, as the changing rooms are used as Additional examination rooms.

No I make sure I'm fully dressed

Just noticed my phone autocorrected feel to geeky for some reason in the title and it won’t let me change it!

I’ve never once come out of a cubicle in a state that wouldn’t be fit to be seen by cctv.

It’s not like the camera is going to be filming over the toilet cubicles. The pupils will know they are there and, if it stops assaults/vaping or whatever they are trying to discourage, then all for the good. Anyone who is then in a state of undress captured by cctv is doing it purely for show.

This might help OP, it's a FOI request about the use of cameras in toilets: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-cctv-cameras-in-toilets/use-of-cctv-cameras-in-toilets
Personally I'm uneasy with cameras in toilets as it runs up against safeguarding.

Well yes, but you're (presumably) an adult...?

CCTV in toilets is fine as long as it doesn't cover the actual toilet cubicles. I'd want to see the policy though which would define who has access to the footage and for what purposes it can be used. I don't think that preventing vaping is a good reason, presumably pupils will just vape in the cubicle instead.

The trouble is, some children will intentionally do this so they can try to get someone sacked for looking and their parents will back them to the hilt.
The best solution is what we have always done - have teachers checking known problem areas during breaktime duty. That way, you can ensure only female teachers are seeing what is going on inside the female toilets. The problem is, some schools don't do breaktime duties (or some people half-ass it and just stand around chatting in public areas of the school which is useless) and they then wonder why they have problems.

What's the alternative though? There aren't enough staff to supervise. Vandalism eg blocking sinks is a huge issue. There was a thread on this the other week and lots of schools are only opening access to toilets at lunchtime when they can be staffed, which is clearly not acceptable either. How do you stop vandalism, bullying, skiving etc otherwise?

CCTV doesn't magically stop people doing things. Someone has to be looking for it to be effective. There's no point using a camera for what a human can do perfectly well.

Honestly I realise this generation won't even have a notion of personal privacy soon with the amount of CCTV watching them and they themselves reporting where they are on social media all the time but I think it's worth pretending we think children are humans who are entitled to a modicum of privacy.

No @Doseofreality I too would have concerns as when I first started my period, there was a couple of 'accidents' when I came on early or flooded and had to strip off and attempt to wash my knickers, tights & skirt in the sink very quickly as soon as the toilets were empty, then dry under hand dryer (took ages but I'd no choice as it was either that or walk home covered in blood - sorry for the tmi). Luckily my shirt was long. These days, I'd hope pastoral staff would be understanding in that situation but you get my point.
Could they not just put a microphone in there (I realise this would rely on staff recognising voices) or, if there's an opening walkway that doesn't show the actual inside but shows who goes in, maybe that's where they're putting one?

Did you miss the bit about pupils changing for PE in the toilets, those who say they would have no issue with it?

I would expect the cameras to be off while the toilets where used as changing rooms but apart from that no issue with cctv covering the sinks and blind spot.

We actually viewed a secondary school that’s toilets where open if that makes sense just like a big room with loads of cubicles down one side and sinks the other but no wall to make it a room. CCTV was in corridor so technically covering the “room”

I received the same letter today. Doesn’t bother me. I’m more interested in them catching vaping/bulling issues.

Cctv is usually only accessed by IT and a member of SLT in response to a particular incident or situation. It's been like that ever since it started being installed.

And before anybody asks, only IT would be able to make copies/clips and they are DBS Enhanced as everybody else - and there is a log kept of when the cctv is accessed and who by.

My DD is 15, I’d welcome this

I would ask about the changing facilities when the other ones are in use - it’s not acceptable to have cameras filming changing teens - but beyond that wouldn’t be worried.

Nerds must. Sadly. 40% of teens have tried vaping, scary. Helps stop bullying too etc

They installed cameras in the girls toilets at DD's high school after near continuous issues with vaping, vandalism, bullying and messing about. Resolved it immediately. Benefits massively outweighed any loss of privacy as far as my DD was concerned.

Totally normal to have CCTV around school toilets, obviously not in the actual cubicles but on the sink area which is increasingly open to the corridor.

No one actively watches it. It can only be viewed by specific members of staff in response to an incident that needs investigating.

My children are too scared to use school toilets due to antisocial behaviour. So they refuse to eat/drink during the day.
Yabu

CCTV in the toilet blocks (not seeing into cubicles) could save lives. A friend of mine overdosed on ketamine in the toilets at school when I was 14. In another case, four boys dragged a girl into the boys toilets and sexually assaulted her. CCTV would have proved it had happened. But because the boys were football players it was swept under the rug.

The toilets in my school consist of an area which is open to the main corridor where sinks are. The cubicle doors are next to the sinks. Anyone exiting a cubicle is immediately visible to people in the corridor.

CCTV in this area - obviously not showing the insides of the cubicles, but you can see what happens around the sinks and who enters which cubicle - has been invaluable for the school in terms of safeguarding students. We've been able to prove wrongdoing when without the cctv it would've been he said/she said.

Well they'll stop doing that won't they?

Particularly as there'll be signs warning there's CCTV in there.

Poor schools are damned if they do, damned if they don't. About 8 years ago a head installed fake cctv in the school toilets at one of our local schools and had lots of angry parents to deal with. Vanadlism and anti- social behaviour is a major issue in school toilets - even in primary schools. I'd support the school in trying to improve things. I'm sure any school would rather not have to do this but what other solutions are there?

The only bit I'd have an issue with is the toilets being used as a changing room sometimes. I'd expect clear signs on the doors indicating that there was CCTV to remind any pupils not to use it as a changing room (and alternative changing provision when necessary).

But other than that, it wouldn't bother me