To judge this parenting

[JustParkAngryFace]

My sibling and I have multiple children. We have very different lives and choices. Sibling family has a full time nanny.

Sibling and their spouse do not seem to spend much time with their children, and this is where I may be BU. They visit us, or I visit them and they do no parenting, one will usually fall asleep and the other will stay with the adults or doing their own thing.

My family (DP and children) and I can feel a bit like we are outsourced free childcare to give them a break. I get frustrated as there is absolutely no discipline or boundaries from the parents and we are running around for DC, who are very demanding, high energy and challenging. I have to tell off someone else’s children and they never step in.

Sometimes the children are doing things that aren’t safe, or they are doing things they aren’t meant to be, like taking things that do not belong to them or not asking permission first. Recently one child took for themselves a lot of food that was clearly meant for all the children (I made this clear) and ate it ALL without even asking an adult. They don’t wash their hands after using the toilet and don’t flush it, or use loo roll. They don’t seem to eat normal meals, whenever I am around them they eat small snacks, pizza, bread and crisps. I’ve babysat them and made normal kids meals before (after checking with their parents what they like) and they will usually cry and refuse to eat it. One of them seems to have unlimited screen time, although when I ask the parents I am told it is limited… I’ve just never seen it limited.

The kids don’t even ask for or bother their parents during the visits, they see the visits as time to get 100% attention from all of us and it’s sold to us as quality time but it feels like I am pulled in all directions by all the children, including my own at the same time!

I love the children and being an Aunt but I start to dread the visits, I would enjoy them so much more if sibling and spouse were actually actively helping parent them and not using it as a chance to offload them onto me. I’ve tried days out too, the parents will stay with the small ones in one spot sitting down and we are expected to entertain the rest of them.

I’ve spent time with other parents and usually they are actively watching their kids and having input into what they are up to? Is this normal? AIBU to avoid them a bit more from now on? I feel bad for the children though

Do things differently. If you want to see these kids (do you?) arrange one on one time with each child a few times a year, see how they behave with just you / you and your children. If still this difficult, I’d be totally rethinking.

Go ahead and judge, I guess, they are lazy parents. Although, I wonder how bad it would be if you actually just did nothing too for the time they were there?

If there is food to be shared then keep it out of reach and share it out at the point of eating. If they are happy to take the risk about their children coming to harm in your home then I don't think you need to take it upon yourself to worry in their place. Just match your dsis and her dh's behaviour and see what happens. It could be mayhem, it could be fine or they might pick up the parenting if you aren't doing it for them.

Obviously eating picky bits and screen time isn't great but I'm not sure how this is anything to do with you - unless you just want to illustrate how the pair of you are different?

@TheWayTheLightFalls I think it’s an all or nothing offer. If I tried to have just one of them I would be told the others were upset to miss out and I would have to take them as well. I never get one on one time and fill the nanny role at their house or mine. I have even cleaned and done their laundry before but I don’t do that now!

At my house they don’t really help out. With anything.

Ask them to bring their nanny next time so there’s someone there to actually parent them.

@Desecratedcoconut there has been damage caused by various incidents at their house and mine. Some quite expensive.

Thing is when I mention to their parents the kids are being a bit picky, and shall I make something else to eat, they seem to deny this is real, as if it’s just a one off. But I’ve never seen them eat much normal food in all honesty. I feel strange about it as they will deny things are as they seem, does this make sense. They will say they have limited screen time, but they don’t seem to have it.

Is this normal? AIBU to avoid them a bit more from now on?

No, it's not normal and no, YANBU!

My parents distanced themselves a bit from some relatives of ours when I was a kid. They pretty much ignored their kids' behaviour at our house and my mum and dad had to essentially parent their kids all day. One was my age and the other was a year younger and I remember being about 7 or 8 myself and thinking they acted like annoying toddlers, they were always breaking things and having tantrums and they had gross table manners as well.

If you want to see them, either ask to meet up at their place or somewhere neutral halfway where, if their kids misbehave, it won't be your house they're wrecking, your toilet they're not flushing or your food they're nicking.

How old are the kids, by the way?

It's hard to tell, and I think it depends on the age of the children.

But this is certainly how I, and other children I knew, were brought up - as part of 70s benign neglect parenting.

When we had family or friends visit, the children were very much expected to run off and play and entertain ourselves, and not disturb the adults until mealtimes. The adults all just sat and gossiped and drank tea.

Obviously this doesn't work with toddlers.

@ManateeFair they are between 2 and 10. I am getting annoyed as our kids can’t get away with the same behaviour, they get along but they make comments to us about it. I have nice polite kids I like to think who know how to behave. I rarely ever find our kids doing half the things their kids get away with.

Obviously eating picky bits and screen time isn't great but I'm not sure how this is anything to do with you

The OP does she's been asked to babysit and the kids have cried when given proper meals, so in that sense, it's affecting her.

I don't think it's so much about judging their parenting as such, but more about the fact that their parenting (or lack of it, maybe) is making their children quite difficult and stressful for the OP to be around and therefore she's wondering if it's reasonable to be around them a bit less.

I'll be honest, I would be happy to babysit some friends' kids now and again, but not others. People can parent their kids however they want, as far as I'm concerned, but if that parenting style means their kids are a nuisance to me, I won't enjoy spending time with them and I'll only want to see them on child-free occasions.

Is there any actual parenting to judge? Doesn’t sound like it.

Oh blimey, if the older ones are still behaving like that, then I think I definitely would take a step back. And a two-year-old DEFINITELY needs their parents watching them; a kid that age is a lot of work even when they're good as gold!

I don't have any children so it's even worse. When my sister brings hers to family events she sits back and does fuck all letting her kid walk into my bedroom, or mums bedroom at hers, open drawers and take things out of the fridge and cupboards without asking. She is 8 so too old to be doing that without permission- she knows she needs it or should need it.

I finally complained to my sister to look after her bloody child and she said why don't I. Its her turn for a rest and she expects mum and I to watch her kid for her at gatherings.

I told her where to go but then her kid is into everything. The child free are often fair game for family who can't be arsed to look after their own children but you have your own too.

I'd just March her badly behaving darlings to her and tell her to control them

I wouldn’t visit

Meet them out and about, not in your home ever.
and don't parent or watch their kids beyond helpful commetarys

"BIL/DSis, you might want to grab little Timmy he is fishing food out that bin."
"Suzy looks like she's going to fall and hurt herself"

Etc.

Its difficult because it's a grey area /balance is needed and it's hard to know where that line is.
I find some of my friends are crazy overinvolved with their kids hovering over them all the time... and seem to think I am some negligent lassiez-fairr for letting my child play independently while I have a coffee and a chat and check in every 10.

When we had family or friends visit, the children were very much expected to run off and play and entertain ourselves, and not disturb the adults until mealtimes. The adults all just sat and gossiped and drank tea

Similar for us, but I think we were also expected to play and entertain ourselves in a reasonably well-behaved way, if that makes sense? So we'd go off and play, but we'd know that while playing we shouldn't be breaking stuff or punching each other. We were sent off to play because we were generally trustworthy enough not to create havoc and wreck stuff. It doesn't sound like the OP's nieces and nephews could actually be told to 'run off and play' without the OP's food getting nicked or her stuff getting broken. The only times we weren't expected to entertain ourselves was when two of my cousins came round, because if they were unsupervised they would always, always ruin something or hit someone.

I think I'd just be bold and brash with them - she's your sister, which is a relationship where your can be.

"Sarah please control your kids they're going to break something of mine again."

"OI Sis bloody well supervise your own kids, you can't bring them round to mine and let them go feral, it's not okay!"

Plonk your bum down with a beverage of choice "Right I looked out for the kids last time, your turn today!"

I'd also engineer the majority of your visits at their house or outside the house, and 100% not pick up where they are leaving off.

Yes that's true, although we would still he silly and boisterous and do stuff we weren't supposed to do - but our parents wouldn't know about it because they weren't checking on us.

Also we were allowed to watch TV and play computer games to our hearts content - but of course the options for both were severely limited back then.

Food would always be picnic type food, because parents acknowledged there's little point cooking a nice meal for excitable children who just want to eat and run off again. Maybe the adults had proper food, but I can't remember.

But physical fighting and breaking stuff would have got us into trouble for sure.

I feel this is also down to lack of parenting, children should be properly trained to use the toilet properly? I’ve never seen either parent help with the toileting for the children who have poor toilet hygiene. They have a nanny too maybe she doesn’t think this is important either? I would be embarrassed as this is an important life skill?

As there as lots of kids I think a lot gets left to slide but a child over 7 should know how to wipe their bum and wash hands and not be taking food from someone else’s house. I let the food slide at visits usually because a picnic tea is usually the best plan but even if I lay out an assortment of different child friendly options, they will just eat all the dry bread and all the crisps and also take all the drinks for themselves too. If I babysit at their house I am expected to make a meal I don’t usually have the ingredients for a buffet tea. They do go into rooms and do things they shouldn’t so I am following them around for safety. When I look after them at their house they are just glued to screens for hours and don’t want to play anything or engage this is why I asked the parents about screens.

We were also raised like this and my sibling always complained about it and didn’t agree with it. Its now only me who bothers with things like toilet hygiene, eating a balanced diet and behaving yourself. The children are in a huge amount of extra curricular activities and very bright, I am sure they have a good future ahead of them in this sense. I just can’t stand being around this chaos but Christmas is calling! I am going to just sit on my bum and do nothing all day perhaps 🤔

They go to you because they get attention from you. They don't go to their parents because they won't get any attention from them. I know it's simplistic but that's about the sum of it.

I'm not excusing it, btw. I wouldn't be having these people at my house, personally. I can't see any solution to it that doesn't involve your sister and her husband pulling their heads out of their asses and parenting their children. They're in for some fun teenage years.

What's wrong with that?

How old are they op?

Call it out every single time. Sibling can you stop your DD from eating all the food. Sibling please can you watch DS while I watch my children do some drawing. Sibling your DS has just been to the toilet and not washed their hands can you have a word?

If there's no improvement then distance yourself.