To not understand no 'help' from dads?

[Questionasker2]

I've got a couple of month old baby, as well as two older primary aged children. Particularly in the first month I lost count of how many people said how well I was doing or how well I looked because I was dressed properly, had makeup on and clean hair (absolutely nothing wrong with not having makeup, or choosing comfies, I personally just feel more 'together' this way). But it surprised me that it seemed unusual for my husband to be on baby duty for half an hour before he goes to work in the morning.
It seems to pop up a lot on social media etc as well the realities of newborn mums not washing their hair in a week, in dirty pyjamas by the evening etc. Which is fine if thats their choice, but its portrayed as if there's no option but most of the cases there is a partner in the house.
In 2023 are we really still expecting mum's to do 100% of the baby care while dad's get their personal time still or are some just being martyrs in not passing over the baby for 10 minutes to shower?

• of course single mums, or mums with partners working away/longer hours etc is totally different

People often still have very low standards for men so it’s surprising when some men actually surpass them by being parents, rather than very occasional babysitters

The ‘together’ mums are usually to total stress heads - perfect home and perfect hair? Didn’t have time.

I don't really understand what you mean. Early days one of us was with baby all the time, the household stuff of staying laundered and fed took up a lot of time, we had no energy for anything else due to sleep deprivation.

Who gives a shit what new mums look like, really?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I think what the OP means is that dads are still so often viewed as being in the position of 'helping out' from time to time, rather than as an equal hands-on parent.

Completely agree with you. Even with my husband working long hours I could still do all that, he’d take over when he got home. I recall a couple of very old fashioned friends saying I was way out of order for that, and that he needed his time. Ridiculous. Dads need to do stuff with their kids just as much as mums do, it’s really beneficial for kids to have that.

Most people manage to get up and showered most days. People are just trying to be nice complimenting you for it. I was always up and out from a few days old because I liked doing that, however potentially I should have prioritised sleep above everything because I nearly cracked later on! If you only have one healthy baby at home during the day your life is potentially easier than it is for others? I know people with 2 sets of twins close together in age, I would guess that’s a struggle even with 2 parents at home!

I agree OP the bar is set on the floor. And while nobody should judge a new mother's appearance. People should also not judge the women who want to put the make up on etc.

I was the same, up showered make up hair done etc helped me feel me. Which added to my well being. My exH would take junior for breakfast while I got ready and it meant I felt able to get out and about- which was great for my physical an mental wellbeing, junior benifites from the fresh air as well.

I wouldn't judge any woman who wants the opposite but can we not tear down those who find it beneficial.

I only have to go on Mumsnet to see that many many men continue to prioritise themselves above their family and do consider all childcare the women's responsibility. Many threads on here about men so selfish that they would complain or refuse to look after their own kid in the morning before they go to work, yes. Typical thread: 'I'm on maternity leave/working part time and DH does nothing around the house and makes me feel guilty for asking him to look after his own children so I rarely do, I do all the school runs and he lies in bed while I get the kids ready and get no time to get myself ready. He says he works/more hours/earns more so shouldn't have to do these things. Is he BU?'

Are we still expecting mums to be doing 100% of the baby care? No of course not.

Are we still expecting mums of newborns, or even women in general to get dolled up like the perfect 1950s housewife? Of course not, unless they want to.

Do your hair and make up. Or don't, who cares. Do expect men to pitch in and take equal responsibility. If they're around to do so.

Even the dads that I secretly think are a bit rubbish in my friendship group do some childcare every day.

My DH does breakfast with the baby and toddler and we split everything when he’s home from work. Theoretically, I could wash my hair and apply a full face of makeup everyday… sometimes I’d rather read a book, walk the dog alone, or have a lie in though 🤷‍♀️.

Yeah, my own DPs sometimes genuinely complain that my DH does too much or say it's unfair that he used to make his own packed lunch when I was on mat leave for example!!

But this is ops point. Did you not have time because you and DP were too busy or did you not have time because he wouldn't have baby for 30 minutes so you could wash your hair and put on clean knickers?

My son has quite complex additional needs. His father has always been quite involved with him and although he doesn’t do much housework he does a lot of the childcare and also that gives me the break and also allows me to sleep on the days he isn’t working long hours. If he didn’t do that I’d be living in 2/3 hours of sleep a day

Your parents are pretty toxic

Ah yes classic mumsnet. It's the women being martyrs. Where have you been to not get many men are shit parents? Do you really not get it?

The bar is set so low for men. If a man is say at a coffee shop on his own with a child you will see people holding doors open offering to carry a tray etc and praise of how good he is. A woman would get none of this.

I also hate the excuse

"oh well baby only settles well for mum"

Baby isn't going to get used to dad unless he starts from somewhere. Or, if it's case of breastfeeding etc, that means dad's job should be supporting the family - getting dinner ready, cleaning, mental load and planning tasks. It's not "helping", it's doing an equal share.

The phrase 'hands on' is used on here a lot and it irritates me.

Mums are never described as 'hands on', only the dads. I think it shows that the bar is still very low for men regarding the responsibility they have for their own children.

Most new mums I knew would have taken an extra half hour in bed rather than shower and put on make up if their DHs did a 30 minute baby-shift before heading to work (and several did).

I don’t really see why you’d need someone else there to shower and dress. I put mine on the mat/in a bouncy chair/etc. at the bathroom door and showered most mornings. It’s not the mechanics of it that makes getting up with a baby difficult, it’s the sleepless nights that makes effort in the day feel impossible.

Edited: I do agree, though, that there is still a huge mismatch in what’s expected of men compared to women when babies join a family.

The bar is so low for men it doesn't exist.

My first two children I was constantly run ragged, PND, horrifically messy house. Took years to recover. Husband didn't lift a finger, he didn't think that was 'his job'. I was young and an idiot, I didn't understand how awful that would make my life. Being a single parent to two under 2 was much easier than feeling consistently let down.

Had a baby with new DH 10 yrs later and it's night and day: we spoke at length about childrearing before we did it together and he does a quite close approximation to 50/50 when he's not at work. I shower every day and my house is clean: life changing

Tbf if a woman has a low expectation from her man then it says a lot about her too, especially if she accepts that a man knocks her up then does nothing after that.

Is this location based? I live in South London for example and there's always men with babies or small children in cafes.

We go to the soft play most Wednesdays (throughout the year) and at least a quarter of the adults are men (on their own with their child). No one bats an eyelid; certainly no one praises them for it...! The ratio increases around holiday times.

I've no doubt that expectations of dads used to be on the floor. They may still be elsewhere. They aren't where I live.

Most new mums I knew would have taken an extra half hour in bed rather than shower and put on make up if their DHs did a 30 minute baby-shift before heading to work (and several did).

This!!

IME the reason some new mums look frazzled and others don’t is far more to do with what sort of baby they have (sleeper vs non sleeper, laid back vs Velcro), than how much their DH helps out.

Had this when DS was newborn. DH was off for a few weeks and very hands on. He left it mostly to me when he went back to his very long hours job. 2 weeks later and DS would no longer settle for him. DH was upset as he realised why and he said that wasn't the dad he wanted to be. He did every single bedtime after that to compensate for the loss of contact during the day.

Yes, exactly this! My husband was plenty hands on with our first but generally if he was holding her, I was probably asleep 😂my second is a champion sleeper and thus the state of both my house and me are vastly improved