To ask advice on how to deal with know it all group member at university?

[gpproj]

I'm currently retraining and studying for a healthcare degree, I'm in my first year (so around 2 months in). I already have a degree and master's (first class and distinction - only mentioning to provide context of my academic background).

I'm currently in a group with 4 other students, they are all 18/19 and straight out of sixth form (again just saying to provide context). It's been a bit of a nightmare (2 of them just don't turn up for meetings despite texting and emailing them).

However, I'm having a difficult time with one of them who is taking the project in a bit of a wrong direction. She is trying to pigeonhole her analysis into basic points covered in a-levels (e.g. the kind of buzz words you mention to get marks in a-level exams like saying something is 'reductionist'). She will say things like she is happy to do all the analysis as she is 'very confident' with it as she did it at a-levels. I've been reading her section and I feel like it isn't really relevant (e.g. she's critiquing a vague part of a theory we're using, rather than critiquing its ability to be applied to the topic in question - if that makes sense). I have tried to gently mention these things to her, but she does this thing where she will interrupt me and start talking over me by trying to say what I'm saying, like I said

'I think we need to include some analysis of the topic and-'
'Include analysis of the topic, yes we need to include that'

I can't get a word in edgeways.

AIBU to keep trying or should I let her do her best? I know I'm a mature student so I'm not expecting my group to approach the work in the same way I would, and it's still a new subject to me so I'm still new to it all too, although it does have some similarities to my previous degree.

Reading this back I feel bad for writing 'know it all' in the title, that's unkind of me.

You're a mature student you should know how to handle this.

How should she know how to handle this??

Have you split the work into different sections? I think at this stage I'd just do my section and give only very gentle feedback if asked, as positive as possible.

I did a healthcare degree as a mature student and it's not easy as an 18 year old to have us oldsters there. If the degree is properly set up, this piece of work won't represent any of your marks, and dven if it did, you'd be separately marked. I'd say dial it right down.

I'd just hope it didn't count towards anything and smile and ket them at it.

(Having done second degree then masters at 47)

When it counts choose better teams. Identify the keeno's.

If it’s going to impact on your marks then you just need to explain to her why you think she’s wrong. You can’t get a word in edgeways because you aren’t asserting yourself - you’re talking about ‘a bit of a wrong direction’ or being mean by calling her a know it all. You aren’t a child - just be polite, firm and clear. If she talks over you tell her to let you finish.

If it’s not impacting on you ignore her.

Why do you have to work in a group? Is it compulsory? I’d hate that OP - what a complete pain.

I’m 25, so not that much more older and wiser lol

She constantly talks over any kind of comment or feedback, even from the lecturers. She will repeat back what is said word for word as if it was her suggestion. I’ve never come across someone who does that

Unfortuately, it goes towards 40% of our mark, and we weren’t allowed to pick our group. Her section is the most important (she decided to elect herself group leader and take that section on as she says she’s the most confident)

How important is this specific piece of work?

I hate to say it, but it's also possible that given your experience she may be intimidated and trying to appear more confident and competent than she really feels.

I agree to divide the work up into sections and give each person a section that they are responsible for but need to present and run by the group for constructive feedback ahead of tutor feedback.

If this will have a significant weighing against your overall marking then I think you need to pull her aside and be direct and just say "I've read your section and I have concerns, I've made a few points that I think you might want to look at more and I'm here if you want to go through it together. I hope you don't feel I'm overstepping this is just what I learnt the tutors like to see when I did xyz academic study so it would be really good if we can incorporate that. "

If it doesn't really have any bearing on your marks then I'd just let her be responsible for her section and get on with your own. She needs to have the opportunity to learn and get criticism and feedback as well so I'd only step in more than you already have if it will have direct consequences for you.

Why the fuck does your mark depend on other people’s work?

Sorry - I’m no help but Christ that would drive me insane.

@burnoutbabe Yet still can't use an apostrophe?

Group assessments are the absolute pits! I would let her know that you have more experience studying at a university level and if she wants to pass this one she’s going to need to stop talking and start listening.

Is an objective of the assignment learning how to work in groups and negotiate in the same way you would have to on the job?

Agree with others. If it affects your mark you will have to be direct (1:1 obviously). Otherwise leave her to it.

@Dotcheck I think you are right - team dynamics and all that

OP just playing Devil's Advocate, here - if you have completed a full BA/BSc and a MA/MSc in the last couple of years, I'm assuming they were not in a related subject (as you've stated) or you would not have been funded for further study?
Maybe cut the A Level students a bit of slack and give them a chance as it's early doors, they're new to this level of study and (given you're an experienced student) you know these early L4 assessments won't impact on your final classification...

This happened to me op and I am still annoyed about it years later.

We were in a group doing a project based on a case study. Loud mouthed woman talked over me loudly when I said the most important thing to explore was X. She said no. X was to do with the case study persons culture and it would be racist to mention it. She was so loud and adamant that most people agreed with her.

When we did our presentation, our 2 lecturers said "that was OK, but why on earth did you not discuss X. That was the main issue"

I was raging. I lost marks because gobby mouth shouted the loudest

So my advice is, push the issue as much as you can. Don't bow down like I did. This is YOUR mark too and if you have to be forceful then you need to do this. Its just so frustrating and I genuinely believe group marks should be phased out for this reason

This is the wrong place for advice lol

I am a lecturer, we encounter these issues pretty often in group projects and I can still remember how frustrating they were as a student myself!

I'd hope, if you were one of my students, that you'd raise this with me. At that point, I'd perhaps suggest a group or individual tutorial where I could steer students who might be going off in a tangent, in the right direction.

It's all the sort of thing that adds to our workload but I personally don't mind, as it's much easier for us to address these issues than students.

@PhantomOps I'm not the best person to ask as ChatGPT would be utterly useless for the sort of assessments my students undertake. It's a niche, practical subject and so far AI can't do the work for them (and long may it last!).

My post grad was exactly the same 20 odd years ago. I was doing it on top of a full time job and we weren't even allowed to allocate groups according to who could meet when.

It still pisses me off when I think about it. But I opted out as soon as I got my post grad - could have continued to MA but with group work a compulsory part of marks, no way. You end up either doing all the work yourself and persuading others into accepting it, or you accept someone will pull your mark down.

In theory, I'd like to do MA History just for me now - but as group work is part of all of it, I'm not going to.

Like other posters, it still annoys me years later. I hope you have a better experience.

I don't understand how marking as a group can possibly be fair.

Coming from the other side...

I remember a module in my undergraduate (in the mid 90s) that was group work assignment. Groups of 4. Group awarded a total score out of 400 and the group could decide how the total score was divided between the 4, to give each individual a % mark out if 100. Most groups split equally 4 ways, ie 320 marks = 80/100 each.

I contributed zero. I attended no meetings and did no work for the entirity of the project. Group got a grade. They decided to award me the minimum pass rate (40) but weighted themselves with the extra.

More fool them. I deserved zero, would have awarded me zero if in their situation, I was massively shocked that I got a 40% pass on zero work.

I still sometimes think about their levels of altruism and am amazed by it.

Stick up for your own grades.