To find some Primary School teaching a bit pointless?

[Schooll]

Every other day my child brings home homework asking her to identify a new type of pronoun, adjective etc.

My friend is over today too and we both work in fields that require a good standard of English. We cannot understand why we are still stressing children out with things like ‘identify the relative pronoun’, what use is this information?

Genuinely, when will my child ever need to know this and why is she spending so much time stressing over the different types when it’s unlikely to ever be needed again, unless she becomes a primary school teacher?

Am I missing something where this sort of information is actually really useful and we should still be using it to judge children’s intelligence in exams etc?

It really isn't.

The 'stuff' on the current NC and assessed in Y6 SATs is of no use for anything, let alone learning another language.

I just had a look at the 2022 SATs test, looked pretty normal stuff to me!

It is rather niche and a bit silly at Primary age when there is far too much on the curriculum to fit into the time available already.

I can be useful in GCSE English Langage and Literature for the students aiming for the highest grades and is essential in A Level English Language and subsequent degrees in English Language and Linguistics. Not much use in many workplaces.

Blame Gove ! Teachers have to teach the curriculum presented to them . I agree with you unnecessary at primary school.

I’m a primary headteacher in Scotland. We don’t teach any of the obscure grammar that English Yr6 have to do, and I don’t have a clue what some of the things mentioned on this thread are.

Homework for kids. Still find it ridiculous. Look at Scandinavia and the Netherlands. None of this nonsense. Happy intelligent kids who learn to play!!

That’s good to hear someone’s got it right when it comes to the primary curriculum! Do you feel that what is taught in Scotland gives children a good solid grounding in grammar?

Its a waste of time and they could be taught so many more valuable things.

Take a look at a year 6 grammar test for SATs. In fact, everyone should! Sadly, this is why most primary schools teach this content so dryly and early on as there’s so much to cover and the test is completely removed from rich texts and paragraphs.

I can guess that it might be useful for instructing artificial intelligence models and so on in future.

But someone more knowledgeable may say this guess is wrong. Other than that guess for that purpose it appears like a waste of teaching time.

It is mentioned again.... at A Level if they do Language or Lang/Lit. But by that point too many have been put off by boring Primary School Literacy and even more boring Language GCSE content. It's very disheartening.

Sorry, but I disagree with most of you. I teach at a uni (elite, Russell Group) and am absolutely shocked at the appalling ignorance in basic grammar of my students when it comes to writing essays. Most jobs they will get will require strong writing skills. Perhaps 10% of them currently have this level of competence. Most do not know the difference between a comma and a semicolon, and do not understand basic syntax. There is a critical correlation between clear thinking and clear writing. I despair. If you don't think it's important, please read the short, delightful book Eats, Shoots and Leaves: Amazon.co.uk: Truss, Lynne: 9780007329069: Books
for a quick explanation of why this knowledge is important. But of course, it should not substitute for learning the love of language and reading. Learning foreign languages often helps reinforce a deeper understanding of English grammar.

I used to teach in secondary schools and the level of knowledge about language and grammar was abysmal, so going against the grain here (funnily enough foreign kids who were educated abroad had a much better grasp of their home language grammar and hence the English grammar too), it's kind of good to know what different parts of speech are and it helps learning other languages too,.

Sorry, but I disagree with most of you. I teach at a uni (elite, Russell Group) and am absolutely shocked at the appalling ignorance in basic grammar of my students when it comes to writing essays

Were those students at Primary under Gove’s curriculum?

Understanding grammar not only aids in comprehending complex texts but also lays a foundation for learning foreign languages by providing a framework for language structure and rules. It serves as a fundamental skill that transcends linguistic boundaries and contributes significantly to effective communication across various contexts and languages.

Yep totally agree. I taught in a SEND school and didn't understand why we were teaching spag rather than just encouraging children to just write. It's not just English, I have never (apart from when teaching) needed to know the properties of a shape. We should be teaching more functional skills.

Absolutely. I think grammar, spelling and a broad vocabulary is important

But is it necessary to know such detail? As in, the dreaded fronted adverbial?

I am a secondary school English teacher and this drives me mad. Children come in at 11 with their heads full of ‘fronted adverbials’ (?) but can’t use basic punctuation like commas or full stops. The emphasis is all wrong.

You certainly don’t persuade me with your speech. The whole point of broad education is that it opens opportunities for children after school. You may never need to use algebra, however a child who discovers passion for astrophysics is not going to thank you when they find out that being able to write an email to a university admissions office is not enough to secure them a place.

I don't think anybody would argue that children shouldn't be taught what nouns/verbs/adjectives/adverbs are, or that they shouldn't know how to use a wide range of punctuation correctly.

However...

This 'fronted adverbial' malarkey is complete hogwash, as are most of the other SPaG components of KS1/KS2. They do absolutely nothing to foster a love of learning, reading, and writing because children eventually learn to shoehorn all of that crap into a piece of writing to tick boxes for them being there, when in the real world nobody writes like that!

I say this as a teacher with an English degree who still struggled with aspects of the SPaG curriculum.

It's like my kid learning about vikings. Sure, it's interesting but what use is it. I'd rather she learned how to sew or use a toaster safely or cpr, anything useful in the real world. I dunno why it's all left up to the parents. Like I have to sit her down and teach her how to make a sandwich when she goes to school for 7 hours a day to learn already. Teach her life skills there?

😂

I'm perfectly willing to accept that, while I think a decent foundation of grammatical knowledge is good, the primary SPaG curriculum could do with tweaking. It seems odd that the only example of pointless primary school grammar that people can ever come up with is the fronted adverbial though. Although @Rockhopper81 you make a good point about the effect this kind of teaching can have on their writing, if it's not done well.

I do wonder if some of the SPaG hostility from some primary school teachers comes down to the fact that they simply don't have very good grammatical knowledge themselves (understandably, since they wouldn't have been taught it at school). My dc's primary school teachers regularly made SPaG mistakes and sometimes miscorrected children's 'mistakes'.

@Catza
seconded. Lots of trig/algebra required in my part of medicine